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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #1 
I know a couple of good false cuts for preserving all 52 positions of a stacked deck.

However I don't know any false shuffles which preserve the entire stack.

Which one do you think looks the most realistic?  I want something which isn't too hard to learn but looks really good.  
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Mbreggar

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi Jennifer, check out Tarbell vol 1 for some good full deck false shuffles that are easy. Richard Osterlind frequently uses the false riffle shuffle taught there. Also, I always recommend BBM’s “False Shuffle and Cut Project” where dozens of false shuffles and cuts and all levels are clearly explained and taught.

You could also try Harry’s “Utility Mixer”. Even though Harry himself agrees it is much more effective with small packets, I have found doing it a few times in a row with a full deck is very deceiving and “shuffle-ish”. Old standbys like the Zarrow are great, but knacky and I have found difficult to learn properly.

I do a lot of work with stacks. Personally, I use the GW Hunter false shuffles (from Tarbell) and follow it up with a couple false cuts.

M
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #3 
I'll second the GW Hunter and explain why in a minute.  As far as false cuts, you already know some, so you're all set there.

The reason why I agree with Mike is because it is a shuffle that has stood the test of time and in the hands of a good practitioner, is very deceiving.

The other reason is because you can do it standing up, no table and anytime, anywhere.  You don't need a suitable table like you typically do for some great shuffles like the strip-out, push-through or Zarrow.  

You could also invest some time in a false in-the-hands riffle shuffle such as the Guy Hollingsworth, Heinstein, Truffle, etc.  They are all great and once you have them down, look amazing.  But getting there is difficult, much more difficult than the GW Hunter. 

Having said that, the GW Hunter suffers from the tendency to make it look too studied and as though you are obviously counting.  If you want to see it done poorly, go to youtube.  Yikes!  Some appear to be tutorials when they aren't supposed to be.

Make sure you are relaxed, casual, unstudied and unhurried.  Work on rhythm.  Rhythm is key to the move.  Make sure you don't tip the fact that you are counting.  Break it up into chunks if you have to.  I saw one magician stop after a couple of cards and then sort of "resquare" the cards and continue.  It looked pretty good and seemed to be natural to him.

Just remember that when you tense up you draw attention right where you want it the least.  Nobody should be burning your shuffle.  Everybody has seen a shuffle before and unless they are some fancy type, there is really nothing to get excited about.  For that reason, most just assume it is a good shuffle.  Don't give them reasons to doubt it.
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Matt G

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Reply with quote  #4 
I frequently use the Fishman and Redfish False Shuffles taught in Patrick Redford's Temporarily Out of Order. They're casual-looking overhand false shuffles, and the Fishman is nice because it can cut the top X cards to the bottom to show the bottom card changes.

The "lift-based" overhand false shuffles work fine for me, too. Basically any casual overhand false shuffle then a false cut in the hands or to the table, it just feels authentic. But, they're not meant to be burned aggressively.

I think "best" false shuffle is kind of subjective, just like "best" double lifts. Whatever feels most natural and authentic to you, will feel most natural and authentic to the audience.
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Mbreggar

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Reply with quote  #5 
Good points, Ray. A couple of tips, Jennifer, should you decide to try the GW. Pacing is very important. Shuffle casually and do not call attention to it. I too pause midway for a moment and then continue with the "second part" of the shuffle (where you replace the shuffled-off cards). I then immediately proceed with a false cut, perhaps two. I have also found it important to keep shuffles of this nature out of the main line of focus of the spectators. Don't execute at the typical level (in line with your chin, or a bit lower). Look at your audience directly, engaging their line of sight, and perform the false shuffle about mid-chest, below their direct line of sight, but in their peripheral vision. 

One other point -- which may be misplaced in this thread -- I firmly believe that to lay audiences the action of the CUT is much more important than that of a shuffle (unless the effect is to show complete disarray and then magically restore order). Magicians, all too aware of cyclic stacks, want to see shuffling performed. A particularly critical spectator once told me he thought my shuffling at the beginning of a card set was "distracting" and that it was clear I "did it as a distraction and to cover up other things you were doing." A cut or two is clean and fast and disarming and will certainly throw onlookers off the scent of a stack. And if you use  a breather or short card, you could have the spectator freely cut a couple of times and have the deck back in its top to bottom stacked order easily. 
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #6 

     Yes, Mbreggar:   I do use my Utility Mixer mostly for packets but I do use it with a full deck when it "fits."   Steve Cohen loves the Utility Mixer, nd he's come up with an extra "touch" for using it with a full deck which I may put in print.
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Bob Farmer

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Reply with quote  #7 
The very best full-deck false shuffle that keeps the deck in order (no cuts) and does not use injogs, outjogs, or single-card shuffling will be explained in the fall release of The Bammo Flim-Flam CONglomeration. To get on the notification list, email Bammomagic@cogeco.ca
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Buffalo McKinley

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Reply with quote  #8 
I started looking around for a false shuffle to use with my AACAAN performance.

This is the shuffle I've been practicing for a few weeks.....





I don't know if it is "the most realistic false shuffle", but I'm very happy with it.

If you decide to practice it, let me know and I can give you some tips.

-Buffalo
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #9 
In this thread there is a post by Bob Farmer where he discusses a couple of complete deck false shuffles.  Both are worth studying.

https://www.themagiciansforum.com/post/what-trick-or-sleight-are-you-practicing-at-the-moment-8148219?highlight=underhand+false+shuffle
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalo McKinley
I started looking around for a false shuffle to use with my AACAAN performance.

This is the shuffle I've been practicing for a few weeks.....





I don't know if it is "the most realistic false shuffle", but I'm very happy with it.

If you decide to practice it, let me know and I can give you some tips.

-Buffalo


Buffalo, that is a 'Lift Shuffle' and he does it very well.  That is certainly a good one to work on.

Funny how people who don't know, teach things as new that were in books written before they were born.  But that seems to be the way it goes these days.  
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Socrates

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Reply with quote  #11 
John Carey offered some simple solutions on his recent Alakazam lecture including the Optical False Shuffle... he may well.have discussed these ideas on his TMF lecture too, although I've not seen this lecture as yet.
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #12 

Thanks for all the replies!  Are there any good videos teaching the GW Hunter false shuffle?  I tend to like videos because sometimes I get dizzy trying to read all the sleights in books.  But of course I don't want to watch the wrong video which teaches it wrong. 

I watched the Lift Shuffle video above, and have been messing around with it.  Seems pretty easy.  And is convincing enough especially with certain angles.

I don't have Tarbell Volume 1.  I have a copy of the original Tarbell letters, perhaps it's in there somewhere.

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferG

Thanks for all the replies!  Are there any good videos teaching the GW Hunter false shuffle?  I tend to like videos because sometimes I get dizzy trying to read all the sleights in books.  But of course I don't want to watch the wrong video which teaches it wrong. 

I watched the Lift Shuffle video above, and have been messing around with it.  Seems pretty easy.  And is convincing enough especially with certain angles.

I don't have Tarbell Volume 1.  I have a copy of the original Tarbell letters, perhaps it's in there somewhere.



Jennifer, I'd have to do some research but I'm sure it's covered in some video instruction.
I do remember there was a video where a bunch of false shuffles and cuts were taught, but I can't remember who put it out.  Should be fairly easy to track down.
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Matt G

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Reply with quote  #14 

A quick Google search shows Allan Ackerman teaches the GW Hunter False Shuffle (and a lot more!) in his "Advanced Card Control Volume 5". Paul Wilson teaches it in his Royal Road set as well. I believe Giobbi did some DVDs for the first two volumes of Card College and IIRC the GW Hunter was in Volume 2. I'm sure there are other resources.

Patrick Redford teaches the Fishman False Shuffle and his own Redfish False Shuffle which is an interesting variant imo in his $10 False Shuffles Project (and also as downloads as part of his book on the stack, Temporarily Out of Order). I can vouch for these, they have treated me well in front of friends & family.

I often see people recommend Liam Montier's / Big Blind Media False Shuffles and Cuts Project: https://bigblindmedia.com/products/the-false-shuffles-and-cuts-project-liam-montier?variant=7244329156657 but I haven't purchased it myself.

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Mbreggar

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Reply with quote  #15 
Matt, I recommended the BBM video earlier. It is excellent and, Jennifer, you’ll find your answers in there. And Liam Montier teaches the GW!!
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #16 

Just got my Tarbell Volume 1 in the mail today.  It's my first Tarbell book in this set -- I have the original letters in PDF format.  It only cost me $8.50 including shipping.  The book looks brand new inside and dust jacket is in really good condition for being 50 years old.  I immediately covered with Brodart library plastic cover -- like I do with all my hardcover books with dust jackets @ $1 per book for the plastic.  (I didn't tape to book or dust jacket.. I do it in a way it just slides on wiht dust jacket and taped to itself in the fold of the plastic.)

I got this for the GW Hunter false shuffle.  Hopefully I can keep getting good deals on each volume over time so I don't end up spending too mcuh on this set.   I got it for about half of the original $15 price tag 😉

Screen Shot 2020-07-13 at 3.36.37 PM.png 


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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #17 
$8.50...

that's a great bargain!!!!

a steal..

PS; I use a push-though-shuffle all the time, it's my favorite.

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Self Concept Is Destiny...
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #18 
Opened up this book and I went right to the card sleight section.  It's laid out nicely.. and explains clearly.  I just quickly learned a false cut I've never seen before.. Page 259 "Another Three-Cut Variation".. loving this book.  I am gonna use this cut along with some other false cuts to mix things up a bit.
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Comte de Saint Germain

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Reply with quote  #19 
Clearly, lots of resources mentioned already. There is a nice false full-deck overhand shuffle in Ben Earl's The Shift that I use often, but it's a steep price tag for the rest of the material. I don't have Less is More (also Earl), but from the TOC, it looks chock full of shuffles and cuts. Also R. Paul Wilson has a couple of deceptive full-deck false shuffles in the Unreal Work DVDs/downloads.

Now I'm curious about the G.W. Hunter Shuffle.  Is that in Card College anywhere?
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comte de Saint Germain
Now I'm curious about the G.W. Hunter Shuffle.  Is that in Card College anywhere?


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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #21 
    Let me brag a bit...I've come up with some da-n good utility items - items that "fit'" into and with soooo many card effects...Universal Reversal, Ultra Move. Illogical Double Lift, Angle Spread, Lorayne Force, Status Quo Shuffle, and more 
         The Utility Mixer has to be the most utilitarian action I've come up with - fits into more "places" than any other utility item I know.   Statement from above:

You could also try Harry’s “Utility Mixer”. Even though Harry himself agrees it is much more effective with small packets, I have found doing it a few times in a row with a full deck is very deceiving and “shuffle-ish”

      Steve Cohen's exclamation: "Wow!  I'll use that all my life!"

      I wonder how many here have any idea what the action is!
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #22 
Wow I didn't realize GW Hunter overhand shuffle was gonna be so easy 😉 
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pnerd

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Reply with quote  #23 
What are some full deck false riffle shuffles that are not too knuckle-busting?
.
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Matt G

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnerd
What are some full deck false riffle shuffles that are not too knuckle-busting?
.
The ones I see most commonly recommended are table: Zarrow. In the hands: Hartenstein (or variations thereof).

The one I do is this:

 

I prefer the Overhand shuffle variants though, I'm better at them so it's a subconscious, relaxed action as opposed to a focused one.
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Daniel Young

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Reply with quote  #25 
For a  riffle shuffle Im a big lover of Derek DelGaudio's Truffle Shuffle. But it's different shuffles and/or cuts depending on the trick and the environment.


All the best,
Dan
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #26 

   My Utility Mixer is nowhere near knuckle busting, but some people simply don't want to look into the "good stuff."

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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #27 
Harry, I am interested in false shuffle to preserve entire stacked deck.  You said your Utility Mixer is good for smaller packets than a deck but you might put into print later a modified version of it that works well for full deck.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #28 
It works well with a full deck right now - I just personally prefer it with a smaller packet.
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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnerd
What are some full deck false riffle shuffles that are not too knuckle-busting?
.


Depends what you feel is knucklebusting.

There's a good one in tarbell 1 which is technically a no cover longitudinal zarrow shuffle. Don't let the name put you off. It's almost automatic, and can be done off the table or on it.

That said I don't think a regular zarrow, push through or pull out are that difficult, although they are several times more difficult than the one recommended above.
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kevinwisch

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Reply with quote  #30 
You should also check out the "Wisch-Craft Overhand Shuffle System" which preserves either the top/bottom stock, or the entire stacked deck. It is available for purchase at https://www.billwisch.com/store

Here is a quote from IBM Ring 194 (Huntsville Alabama, Space City Magic Club): "Bill also demonstrated his method for an overhand false shuffle in which you can preserve either the top or bottom stock. His overhand full deck false shuffle is very deceptive: it is just a series of straight cuts, but the movement of the thumb and middle fingers make the sound of shuffling." Other quotes can be found on his website at https://www.billwisch.com/lecture
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Daniel Young

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Reply with quote  #31 
For Mr. Lorayne,

I think we get the idea, your Utility Mixer is the "good stuff" 😉 A quick question about that one, when I read it, Im trying to picture it in my mind. In terms of appearance, does it look/feel a bit like a Charlier/Haymow shuffle?

Also for Harry, you had a false riffle shuffle, and the name escapes me, which was published in Genii (possibly Magic) magazine. Where one packet gets riffled "shuffled" into the center of the other hand's packet. I would like to know if there's a video of this shuffle, as it has interested me, but I can't seem to get the hang of it.

All the best,
Dan
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Medifro

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Reply with quote  #32 
I'd like to mention 2 relatively less-known blind (i.e fully false) overhand shuffles that I use and find quite practical.

Underhanded shuffle by Steve Beam. I prefer it from the GW hunter shuffle as I have dry hands, making running single cards unreliable some times. Learn here or here with other tricks 

False shuffle a Gordon Bruce in 5x5 Scotland. It's a good blind overhand shuffle when you need to bring attention to the fact that the deck is being shuffled. Great card magic book if you can find it, like here 



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arthur stead

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Reply with quote  #33 
Thanks for the references to the GW Hunter false shuffle.  I recently bought a used copy or Tarbell Vo. 1, so I'm going to look into it!

Harry, where can your Utility Mixer be found?

Arthur

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #34 
After staring at the thread title for several days, it occurs to me that the answer to the question is simply "The one you do the best".
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arthur stead
Thanks for the references to the GW Hunter false shuffle.  I recently bought a used copy or Tarbell Vo. 1, so I'm going to look into it!

Harry, where can your Utility Mixer be found?

Arthur


Arthur, in case Harry doesn't see your question, the answer is in his most recent publication,
More Jaw Droppers eBook.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #36 
    And in my most recent books -- just checked, it's definitely in JAW DROPPERS TWO and un AND FINALLY!  Amazing!  Start buying and  reading the good stuff, guys!!!!
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