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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #1 
So I got Tarbell Volume 1 today, so excited to receive it as it is my first Tarbell book. 

I got it for the GW Hunter False Shuffle on Page 254.  This shuffle was recommended to me in the following thread:  

https://www.themagiciansforum.com/post/most-realistic-false-shuffle-for-stacked-deck-10586214

I am really liking this shuffle. But the part where you get a break with right thumb and then resume from that break, seemed really awkward to me and unnatural looking.

So I just injog the last card in the run and freely drop packet B right over it.

I then get a break while squaring off the in-jog. And resume the run the other way.

I show this in the following unlisted youtube video (only those on this forum can see the video). I do things slowly and exaggerate the injog for illustration.

To me this seems more natural. But YMMV. Preserving Mnemonica stack in this example as shown with first 4 cards: 4 clubs, 2 hearts, 7 diamonds, 3 clubs.



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DJ

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Reply with quote  #2 
Your variation reminded me of one I saw from the Aaron Fisher video posted in the article below. Similar idea but slightly different.
https://conjuror.community/false-shuffles-card-trick/

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Dan
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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #3 
For an alternative solution you might consider combining it with a lift shuffle.
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #4 
I've been thinking about that.. tried to do it actually.  Have to work on it.   Are you suggesting doing one pass of lift shuffle and then after say a false cut, and then do the pass of GW Hunter?  Then perhaps another different false cut after the GW Hunter.  (That way there is two different types of false overhand shuffles and two different false cuts.)   Are you saying combine it during the same pass?  I actually tried combining it during same pass and well I got confused.. the lift shuffle is new to me so is the GW Hunter .  But I like to tinker around. 😉. Great thinking thank you!
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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #5 
I was more thinking of it as an exchange of packets once you've done your initual run.

Ben Earl has a very devilish concept in his book The Shift vol 1 called the combination shuffle (not sure if I'd recommend the book, it's quite light on material for the price), but if you do ever pick it up it takes the idea quite far. Probably one of my favourite overhand full deck false shuffles.

You might also be interested in the false full deck overhand shuffle from Erdnase, it's pretty strange imo, but if you combine it with the GW Hunter shuffle it can look amazing.
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #6 
I'll have to check that out thank so much Chi Han!  I am pretty impressed with this GW Hunter overhand shuffle as is though, especially with the modification I made with it.  I feel relaxed when doing it and don't even have to look at my hands.. can do it really fast.   Sometimes though I run off two cards by accident.  Guess I need to know the secret for getting perfect single card runs besides making sure thumb has good grip/conditioner.
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #7 
Just watched Steiner Thelen's variation of GW Hunter, and it's really interesting.  Gonna play around with it as well.  Thanks much for the link DJ.
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Mbreggar

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Reply with quote  #8 
Looks good, Jennifer. I think what you are showing is more reminiscent of a modified jog shuffle, rather than a GW ... but, frankly, if it works for you, who cares what it's called!

PS ... I am almost certain the version you show here was first put into print by Richard Himber in a Genii Magazine piece in the early 1960's. But I am equally certain it predates Himber! Why? Because apparently Hunter himself said what we call the GW Hunter shuffle predates him! Here is a note from Denis Behr's "Conjuring Credits":

This widely used full-deck false shuffle was first described in print by G. W. Hunter in The Magazine of Magic, Vol. 7 No. 4, Mar. 1920, p. 81. It is interesting to note that Hunter doesn't seem to claim it. He writes, “The two shuffles that I am about to describe are easily learnt. They are almost unknown, and have not hitherto appeared in print”.

A precursor to this shuffle—one that uses the repeat overhand-shuffle feature of genuinely mixing the cards, and then undoing that mixing—is a technique by Slygo (John T. Halloran) detailed in The Sphinx, Vol. 9 No. 4, June 1910, p. 90. It's the same concept as the shuffle described by Hunter, but the runs of single cards occur at the beginning of the first shuffle (reversing their order) and at the end of the second shuffle (reinstating the original order), rather than running cards in the middle of the deck.

Some notable additions to this concept include Bob Fisher's “A False Shuffle That Really Shuffles” in The Sphinx, Vol. 31 No. 4, June 1932, p. 147, “The Gordon Bruce False Shuffle” in Gordon Bruce's Lecture Notes, 1985, n.p. (and later in Five Times Five Scotland, 1998, p. 16), and Justin Hanes's “Moses” in Mystery Engineering, 2004, n.p.

Also, Bob Farmer related to me some great work Dan Garrett had done with the GW ("Underhanded Overhand False Shuffle") and work that Bob had done on top of Dan's work.

Point is... kudos, Jennifer, for looking at the sleight, understanding the sleight and adapting it in a way to make it yours.


One more thing to say about the GW Shuffle and why I like it so much:  I have always been convinced that unless you position yourself as a "card mechanic" the less time the cards spend in a magician's hands, the more impossible the magic appears. Moving a few cards around, or a quick cut or two to the table, or something casual, like the GW Hunter Shuffle and then tabling the deck while you finish your opening patter gives your audience the notion that the magician can't be doing something funny since she is nowhere near the cards! It has never ceased to amaze me over the years that spectators rarely think of a stacked or prepared deck first. But will always gravitate to some unknown, unseen sleight (as in "I don't know you did, but you musta done some fancy sleight of hand when I wasn't looking"). This falls philosophically into the same category has Harry Lorayne's theory of always trying to use borrowed decks of cards (which, Harry has said, increases the impossibility factor by at least 20%)


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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #9 

Thanks for sharing all that Mike. I will be re-reading all that stuff and probably doing some research digging up those old articles/magazines.  They should be public domain now right?  How do we get a copy of these old magazines?  85 years and older is public domain?  So 1935 and before?

Would be cool to see you do the GW Hunter and see how you handle the break after the first run.  I just can't get comfortable with it.. looks like I am doing somethign "funny" or cheating wtih the break.  With the injog I allow it to be the break for me so I can freely drop the cards.  Then I just square off and finish the run from the middle.  I do the same as GW Hunter shuffle except the 6th card is injog for the break instead of holding break with right thumb.. that's the only difference truly.  I still do the run from the middle of the deck. 

 

 

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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #10 
Oh wow, I just read Page 259 of Card College Volume 2 (friend has a copy of the book) and the way they describe "GW Hunter" false shuffle is exactly the way I do it, with the in-jog instead of thumb break.  Wow this is crazy.

Would be nice to see the original write up by GW Hunter.
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Rick Franceschini

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Reply with quote  #11 
JenniferG:  In his notebooks, Dr. Daley recorded a false shuffle that applies the Hunter concept with no jogs.  The formula is thus: from face run x cards, drop.  Turn deck down and False Cut.  From top of deck run same x cards.  

Because it is a journal entry, no details are provided, but that means you decide what x is and you pick the false cut.  I will try to upload a video so you can see.  I've never seen anyone use this False Mix.  I do a few pieces with the "Eight Kings" and apply this shuffle as I talk.  It's never been questioned, not even by other magi.


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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #12 
Rick, that's pretty sweet.  Video looks convincing enough!
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