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Gareth

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Reply with quote  #1 
Found this fascinating piece some years ago from Doug Dyment from his intriguing website regarding the most sensible (in my eyes i agree) to order suits when necessary. I have used his recommendation of SHoCkeD ever since. 

http://www.deceptionary.com/aboutsuits.html

Anyone have any thoughts or arguments for and against certain orders.

Also anyone use or learnt his Quickerstack?

Gareth



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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #2 
Quickerstack is really good as is Requiem.  I like (for me)  the advantages of have rules or guidelines as backup. Mnemonics just doesn't work for me,  just not wired for it I guess. 
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #3 
SHoCkeD makes a lot of sense.
Now give that to Darwin Ortiz so that he can rework getting from NDO to the new SHoCkeD Si Stebbins stack.
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #4 
I like the idea of SHoCkeD over CHaSeD. As a former Bridge player Spades and Hearts jump out as more important. They are the MAJOR suits in Bridge. I still have to think of the word CHaSeD sometimes to remember suit order. I may be switching to SHoCkeD!

Mike
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Blathermist

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Reply with quote  #5 
For my money you can't beat whatever fits/suits (appropriate) and works and is easy to remember.

If I'd come to SHoCkeD all those years ago, I would probably have adopted that. But I didn't. CHSD is part of my DNA now and has been for more years than I care to think about. Probably couldn't change even if I tried really hard.

But I'm not going to try.
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Claudio

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Reply with quote  #6 

If you really want to fry the boys at your next magic gathering, use Hans-Christian Solka’s Si Stebbins Pro The values sequence is conform to a Si Stebbins stack, but the suits are definitely not . It uses a SHoCKed order but with a twist.

Si Stebbins Pro can sustain a close examination by non-magicians, and will even fool (some) magicians, unless they suspect you’re using a stack, because the strict Red/Black alternation and suits rotation are missing.

Here’s a short sequence of the stack: 10C KS 3C 6D 9S QH 2D

It takes some time to get used too, but it's one of the best Si Stebbins stacks out there.

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #7 
Thanks Claudio for reminding me about Si Stebbins Pro. It solves the alternating color problem and still has math built in. Very cool!

Mike
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Claudio

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Reply with quote  #8 
No problem Mike. I don't use Si Stebbins Pro anymore, as I still prefer to use Darwin Ortiz's method to setup the stack.
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #9 
Darwin's method is great. I had to look it up again, though. It's truly wonderful when you have someone bring a deck and then remove it from the box etc.. Very powerful stuff. Much better than the method for Tamariz stack.

Mike
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Jake07712

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Reply with quote  #10 
Where would you look for routines using the setup?
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Jake
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #11 
I had a conversation with a friend recently re: alternating suit order in Stebbins and other stacks. My gut has always told me that this might be noticed by specs and thus be problematic. But I have to admit that a number of people I know who are real workers and use Stebbins say that this never happens.

So I will accept this real world research and not fret about this pattern any longer unless I hear some horror stories from other workers. So far I have not had anyone say that they've been burned by a watchful spec. I think the consensus is that no one notices the alternating order. 

Stebbins has some awesome mathematical properties too. Watch for Patrick Redord's upcoming book with his mem deck. You can get from stebbins to Redford stack by running a number of short sequences e.g. run 4, run 5, run 4 etc. There's an easy to remember pattern that gets from Stebbins to Redford. The cool thing is that the exact same pattern gets you from Redford to stebbins.

Mike
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Stevie Ray Christian

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Reply with quote  #12 
Mike,

I have a theory about the nature of a Stebbins spread display.

Is it possible that the repeating order of suits and values calms the subconscious? Like the Golden Ratio in architecture or the Fibonacci Sequence in nature, the audience may experience a comforting assurance while glancing at the cards. Spectators are right to be suspicious... but the idea that a momentary inspection would make the cycle glaringly apparent supposes tremendous powers of observation. If I put myself in the layman's shoes, what jiggerypokery should I be looking for during that opportune moment? Duplicates? Adjacent pairings? Arithmetic?... too late!

While the subconscious mind will not overtake the instinct to suspect the magician, the brain just might be mollified by the beauty of the sequence. 

Certainly, I'd consider avoiding Si Stebbins if I'm ever hired to perform at a Mensa luncheon--but, unless the performer unwisely challenges the spectator to inspect for defect, the spread display will pass muster. Magicians often underestimate the intelligence of their patrons where discrepancy is concerned. In this case, however, the concern is unwarranted.

I believe this is particularly true if the audience has first seen a NDO spread followed by a shuffling sequence.
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Waterman

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Reply with quote  #13 
I started doing a modified version of Chris Mayhew's CAANDY...actually performed it at the restaurant tonight. Spectators get a chance to see my deck spread in front of them while I talk about the steps that they will soon be following.

The thought is there...the warnings from magic club magicians...DONT LET THEM SEE A STACKED DECK...ESPECIALLY A SI STEBBINS!!! THEY'LL CATCH ON!!!
I'm almost wanting someone to catch the order so I can approach some of the fellers at the next meeting and tell them it's true...spectators can see the stack if they look too long at a deck set up in Si Stebbins order. Not tonight though. The trick killed.

Funny memory. A spectator was going through a deck I had off to the side and grinned from ear to ear as he spread the faces towards his friends.
"I knew it!", he exclaimed. "He's got this deck set up in a special order!!".
It wasn't.
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synapse

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Reply with quote  #14 
I cant remember if the colour alternation was fixed, but in Dani DaOrtiz's stack he twists the Si Stebbins stack so the value rotation isn't obvious and if you look at it you wouldn't know it was a variant of Si Stebbins. DaOrtiz's stack still has maths to it.

One of my favourite things about Dani's stack was that you can do "All of a Kind" from the Tamariz book by just knowing 4 numbers rather than having to figure out where the other three matching values are and counting to them from the position the spectator's selected card is at.
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