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KenTheriot

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I have been looking to get larger cups for my C&B routines, especially tapered ones that would look more period for the medieval stuff I'm doing. But the ones I really really want cost ~$300, which is, sadly, not in my budget just now.

When my local magic shop guy showed me a video of a different set of "large" tapered cups that were only $50, I ordered them. I just got them yesterday and they are...um...YUGE!

They are spun aluminum from Ickle Pickle. They are 5 1/2 inches tall with a 3 1/2 inch wide mouth! I can actually fit my stack of Morrisey cups INSIDE one of these cups.

I set them on my table and have been looking at them just thinking they are ridiculously large and that they might not actually be practical for standard cups and balls.

But I don't have the most experience, so I decided to ask here. What do you all think? Have you ever used cups this big? Have you ever seen anyone do a good routine with cups this big?

Clearly the advantage would be larger loads. But failing that, isn't it a bit suspicious hiding even 1 1/8th inch balls under these massive cups? It almost screams "pretty soon there will be a baby elephant under one of these!"

So can I get some opinions from some folks on this? My initial thought is that I really won't be able to use them. But who knows? The experts here may have some great ideas.

Thanks!

Ken


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HexTheDoombunny

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Reply with quote  #2 
One word. Gazzo. Learn that routine and those cups will be a godsend.
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #3 
I "second" the motion for Gazzo. He uses oversized cups. The loads look great. He ends with seven items loaded as I recall - three oranges then three more of something and finally a coconut or cantaloupe. It might be five items but I seem to recall seven??

HexTheDoombunny will know...

Mike 
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HexTheDoombunny

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Reply with quote  #4 
Yes! Six large oranges and a cantaloupe from his hat. And some of the funniest audience interactions
I've seen. His routine is so good he actually used it on Fool Us.

I will also say brace yourself for some incredibly bold work relying on sheer force of personality. At it's core it's Vernon's classic routine but with a few change ups that give it that extra oomph.
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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks guys. I've seen Gazzo's routine. While he uses large cups, they don't appear to me to be "gigantic" like these I now have. This video may give a better idea: 


It may be fine. But the fact that these are SO big AND that they are tapered, I just wonder if they would have the same impact.

Cheers,

Ken

ps - I didn't know that Gazzo was on Fool Us! I thought I'd seen every episode. I'd better check YouTube.
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HexTheDoombunny

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Reply with quote  #6 
Give it a shot; in my opinion the cups are fine for the routine (mileage may vary 😉). With a good cup set it's more about how comfortable you are with the set. Another buying tip, vanishingincmagic.com has a set of brass jumbo cups for about ten dollars more made by Uday in the more commonly seen style. Let me know how it goes!
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HexTheDoombunny

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Reply with quote  #7 
One other thing: regarding ball size. My lovely other half and I make crocheted performance and final load balls that we sell through Stevens Magic Emporium. If you have an idea of the size you need I'm happy to knock a set out and send them to you.
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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HexTheDoombunny
Give it a shot; in my opinion the cups are fine for the routine (mileage may vary 😉). With a good cup set it's more about how comfortable you are with the set. Another buying tip, vanishingincmagic.com has a set of brass jumbo cups for about ten dollars more made by Uday in the more commonly seen style. Let me know how it goes!


I will. Thanks!

Ken
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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HexTheDoombunny
One other thing: regarding ball size. My lovely other half and I make crocheted performance and final load balls that we sell through Stevens Magic Emporium. If you have an idea of the size you need I'm happy to knock a set out and send them to you.


Cool[smile]. How much do you charge for 4? I'd be looking for 1-1/8th in. 

Ken
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HexTheDoombunny

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No charge. I like knowing my creations are in the hands of people who will use them. I just need to know if red is okay or if you have another color in mind, and a pm with where to ship.
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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HexTheDoombunny
No charge. I like knowing my creations are in the hands of people who will use them. I just need to know if red is okay or if you have another color in mind, and a pm with where to ship.


Really? Man, that is incredibly generous of you! I'll send you PM with the info. 

Thanks so much!

Ken
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #12 
Like a lot of other budding magicians, my first set of cups was the plastic red, yellow and blue set from SS Adams. 

Later in life I got a set of Charlie Miller cups - I don't have them in front of me now, final load size was about the size of a tennis ball. I'm not sure if the tennis ball just fit or if it was just a hair too big where the cup wouldn't sit flush on the table. 

I took a master class from Gazzo and we all learned on our own set of Gazzo cups. 
At first, they seemed huge. Final load was a baseball with plenty of room to spare. As we learned the routine, the size settled into our hands and everything felt right. 
We got a nice deal on a cups, balls and pouch package, so most of us bought them at the class. 

I worked with the Gazzo cups for maybe two years then visited a friend in NYC who broke out his set of unused Johnson cups and asked if I could do my routine for him and his wife. The Johnson cups felt very small compared to the Gazzo cups and I had trouble with the routine since I was now out of my comfort zone (size wise). I continued with Gazzo cups exclusively for over 10 years. 

Just last year I bought a set of Mini Paul Fox cups. These were really small but they were ideal for a new routine that I saw and wanted to perform. The advantage to this routine was that I can work out of my vest pockets and didn't a poacher's pouch either. It took a little while to get used to that size but they too eventually fit my hands. 

The regular balls that I use with the Gazzo cups are around 1 1/8"  to 1 1/4" in diameter. It's his no-bounce soccer balls. I like them because of their size (easy to see) and heavy weight (easy to manipulate). That's the one thing that I have to have. Small lightweight balls just don't cut it. 

So, what I'm saying here is don't discount the cups because of their size. You'll eventually get used to them. They won't seem weird to your audience. In contrast, they'll wonder how the heck the final loads got under them. 

WORTH NOTING: I've performed cups and balls where I have the pouch on during my entire show (when busking) or when I put it on in front of my audience (during our stage show). NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE has ever said anything where they put 2 and 2 together and come to the deduction that the loads must have come from the pouch. I say this with confidence because after the show people come up to me asking "Where the heck did those baseballs come from?" I would think it's pretty obvious, but...obviously not. 

Practice with the cups, take advantage of HexTheDoombunny's offer on the balls, and go and kill with that set.
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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #13 
Thanks Dan!! I really appreciate that information. I played with them last night and they didn't seem terribly awkward to work with. Luckily, I have huge hands, so that's a bonus. I'm intrigued by your comment about the weight of the balls. I've been using the standard cork (I think - maybe wood?) ones that are super light. I must say that sometimes the vanishes (I do the Michael Ammar "standup cups and balls" routine with a wand-spin vanish, pass-through vanish, and striking vanish) don't come off as well. I am definitely going to try heavier balls and see what happens.

Cheers!

Ken
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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #14 
A couple of thoughts on big cups:

Check out Tim Ellis's FISM-winning "Runaround Sue" routine - he uses milkshake mixing cups - they are huge.




David Regal has a great C&B routine in which he describes his first set of cups - the same plastic ones already mentioned - and at the end he produces those cups from the ones he is using.

Alex Elmsley has an interesting routine in which the cups are always handled mouth upwards - it can be a bit angle-sensitive because if the audience is close they can see into the cups.  But with really big cups this would be less of an issue.

Several years ago David Acer did a FFFF gag in which he began a C&B routine with  full-size garbage bins and basketballs.  All I remember is that it was really funny!
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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #15 
Thanks Robin. Awesome info! My cups are just about that size[smile]


Ken
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