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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #1 
A few weeks back I attended a Zoom event on The Magician's Forum which lasted a couple days.  It was great!

At the start of one session, people were sharing their different methods for retaining top stock with overhand shuffle, making it look as natural as possible. 

I just wanted to share the way I do it so I made a video.  It's just what I came up with and I'm sure it's already been done this way and has a name for it, but I don't know it.  But to me it looks pretty natural.

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #2 

     Jennifer:   Couldn't see it too well on my computer, but looks like the overhand injog shuffle --- which I've mentioned in all of my books for over about six decades - and said many times -  "The overhand injog shuffle covers a multitude of sins."

      Check out any of my 4-vol. "Best Ever" DVDs and you'll see how often - I mean often I use it.
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #3 
Well it's that, but I square off the injog with the entire deck with a break and then pull out a large packet of cards from the middle of the deck (by retaining some front cards and rear cards with thumb and middle finger), with the break in the center of that packet; I then do another pass of overhand shuffle up to the break.   There is no awkward pause reaching behind the injog. It looks like two normal passes of overhand shuffle.
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #4 
Okay I just read your "The Magic Book" on the in jog overhand shuffle and I see you do exactly this! I always used to just bring everything below the injog with a single cut, with the awkward pause.

Thanks for pointing this out to me Harry.  I love the overhand shuffle and all associated controls with it. It can do almost everything!  I don't know a pass and well the in jog works fine for me as substitute.

Btw, have you ever controlled a card to top of deck using hindu shuffle?  It's pretty clever.  Just learned about it from Expert Card Technique.  They say stop and place card on top and as you go to finish the hindu shuffle, you grab the top cards with a break and then finish with it. 
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Magic Harry

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Reply with quote  #5 
That’s basically the way I do it. I haven’t mastered the pass either.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #6 
    Don't feel too bad about it, Jennifer.  In another thread, some weeks ago, Mike Powers - who has been in magic for some decades, explained his way of doing the overhand injog shuffle - same thing - reached under after the injog to grasp all cards - half deck - in a bunch under the injogged card to throw on top.

      When I posted that that's certainly not the wat to do it - just form break at injog with thumb and shuffle, etc., his response was "That'll work."

      Some do have to start reading the good stuff!
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #7 
So you created that Harry? Squaring off the in-jogged deck with break and then just do what appears to be another normal pass of overhand shuffle?  That's neat! It's so smooth and clean.. love it!  I by habit also pull off a few cards from bottom with ring finger curled over card edge, in case I want to preserve what's at bottom as well.
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #8 
I think Mike Powers does an outjog right?  I forget what he does after, I need to watch the video again from the event a few weeks ago.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #9 

      You know, Jennifer, I don't know if I created it or not. Really.  I've been teaching it for 60 years or so, and my mind (at 94) "ain't" working at its usual 8+ cylinders!!  I do know that I've used it since I was a young boy. What's particularly interesting to me i that I still fool knowledgeable (or assumedly knowledgeable) magicians with it. 
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #10 
I gotta work on getting my in-jogs smaller and breaks smaller.  Right now they are both quite large lol.  But I've only been doing magic a year.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #11 

   More important than size are your angles. If your spectator sees the side of the deck, for example, he'll see the space (your break) at center deck.
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #12 
Yeah I gotta turn to the side a bit when i do that overhand shuffle.  Same thing wtih the overhand lift false shuffle.  I always prefer my close up audience to be in the front of me rather around me.   For the double lifts as well since I do them from the back. 
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #13 
I really do use Overhand Shuffle for most all of my card controls.  I suppose I should learn the pass and other stuff.

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferG
I really do use Overhand Shuffle for most all of my card controls.  I suppose I should learn the pass and other stuff.



Jennifer, when you do the in jog, try to avoid moving the hand backwards. It is a tell. What you should do instead is run one card on top of the left hand cards and use your left thumb to in jog it. Much less noticeable.

The size of the in jog isn't as important as a natural rhythm.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferG
I really do use Overhand Shuffle for most all of my card controls.  I suppose I should learn the pass and other stuff.



Many top magicians never use a pass. I happen to like it and use it, but it isn't necessary. One thing I like about the pass is that you can achieve the desired result while seemingly doing nothing.

With a shuffle, there is an opportunity for the spectator to suspect you "did something".
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StevePR104

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Reply with quote  #16 
Ray, 
Permit me to agree with you and disagree with you...all in the same post.

The flow, the rhythm of the overhand shuffle is paramount.  If you have that down, the injog of the one card will seem natural as part of the overall flow.  The key here, IMHO, is that the cards should not be tightly controlled as you shuffle.  If the deck appears haphazardly shuffled, the injog won't seem out of place in the least.
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #17 
I do overhand shuffle the deck pretty sloppily. But I'll try the injog with thumb thing. 
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevePR104
Ray, 
Permit me to agree with you and disagree with you...all in the same post.

The flow, the rhythm of the overhand shuffle is paramount.  If you have that down, the injog of the one card will seem natural as part of the overall flow.  The key here, IMHO, is that the cards should not be tightly controlled as you shuffle.  If the deck appears haphazardly shuffled, the injog won't seem out of place in the least.


It isn't that the in jog seems out of place but the fact you can clearly see the first card being placed well back of the top card. To me it sticks out like a sore thumb. YMMV.

Most modern explanations of the jog shuffle recommend using the left thumb as described.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferG
I do overhand shuffle the deck pretty sloppily. But I'll try the injog with thumb thing. 


Nothing wrong with sloppy. An "unstudied" shuffle can be a good thing.

Watch your video again and focus on the first in-jogged card.
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Alan Smithee

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Reply with quote  #20 
Can't see more than what's on screen, but it looks fine to me as is.
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #21 
Sorry I should re-shoot it.  But it is basically like Harry does, square off the deck with a break at injog.. hold the break while doing another pass of overhand shuffle up to the break, then throw the remaining block on top.  That way there is no awkwardness of reaching behind the injog and throwing what's under onto the top of the deck.
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Alan Smithee

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Reply with quote  #22 
I wasn't complaining. I merely meant that from another viewpoint it might look less convincing. That's all. Having said that, I'm sure it looks fine. Have no fear, do it as is.

As an aside, many so-called invisible passes have more bad angles than a colander has holes, but the perpetrators are too often oblivious to the fact.
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #23 
I guess the only bad angles are from the back and top.. pretty convincing at eye level up to like 220 degrees at least.
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