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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hi Fellas,

I'm looking for effects that utilize a stay stack but end with the deck in the order that you started with. 

Any ideas?

Rudy

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #2 
Funny you should post this now. I just sent in next month's Card Corner column. It's a Stay-Stack item. So is the item for the following month. 

I'm not sure what your question is. Do you just want to maintain the original stay-stack order after the trick? Or just still have stay-stack but possibly a different order as you would with a faro shuffle.

Mike
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
Funny you should post this now. I just sent in next month's Card Corner column. It's a Stay-Stack item. So is the item for the following month. 

I'm not sure what your question is. Do you just want to maintain the original stay-stack order after the trick? Or just still have stay-stack but possibly a different order as you would with a faro shuffle.

Mike


Hi Mike,

I'm looking for a trick to do between shuffling into stay stack from Mnemonica, and doing two faros to arrive into NDO. I don't want that particular trick (that benefits from the stay stack) to mess up the order required to arrive at NDO. Basically, yes, I want to maintain the original stay-stack order after the trick.

Does that make sense? 😉

Rudy

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #4 
   I have what's probably a silly question, Rudy. With all the good impromptu stuff you know - and do so well - you've proven that over time - why in the world do you bother with a stacked deck - of any kind? Just curious.  (For those who do stacked deck stuff, don't holler - I'm just stating an opinion. Mine.)
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne
   I have what's probably a silly question, Rudy. With all the good impromptu stuff you know - and do so well - you've proven that over time - why in the world do you bother with a stacked deck - of any kind? Just curious.  (For those who do stacked deck stuff, don't holler - I'm just stating an opinion. Mine.)


That's a very fair question, Harry. You've actually given me something to think about because I'm not sure that I've considered why I've chosen to go through the slight trouble (hardly any trouble using your memory system) of memorizing a deck.

I went into it believing that there are just some effects that you can do with a memorized deck that can't be done with a regular deck. 

I'd have to take a little time to consider what those effects might be, but one trick for example is one that was created by Ramon Rioboo, where a deck is handed out and shuffled a couple of times by a spectator. They can remove a chunk of cards and you're able to tell them every card that they have in their hand. I do it all the time and it always gets a great response.

I believe that particular effect is impossible without a memorized deck. I'm sure that there are other examples of tricks like that.

It probably boils down to personal preference. But you raise a good question that I didn't really consider.

Thanks for asking!

Rudy





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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #6 
You can keep the stay stack if you don't shuffle the cards, or if you remove 2 cards that are in mirror position from top and bottom (2nd from top and 2nd from bottom) but if you do this, you lose the order of the cards. 
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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #7 
Or you could find an effect where you use 8 faro shuffles... and you know what happens with that... 
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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #8 
Basic versions of Triumph pretty much leave the entire deck in order, or one card placement away from it.
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chris w

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Reply with quote  #9 
If you're going into NDO to reveal you're in NDO, Robin's suggestion of Triumph might make a lot of sense structurally, as ending in NDO is one of the only things that could top Triumph. Triumph would also reinforce the impression of a shuffled deck, making the NDO reveal stronger.

For a trick that specifically makes use of stay-stack properties, the first phase or two of Marlo's Matching Routine, as popularized by Martin Nash in his Ovation act, needn't disarrange much.
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siahofmars

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Reply with quote  #10 
man i can learn soo much from you guys, i havent got to the point yet where i have learned any memorization methods in my card magic. i heard it can do wonders, but i def need to talk to you guys more about it and see why and how it can do such a thing(maybe in the hangouts meeting on sat?) and take my magic to the next level. I am in the mindset with magic right now that is, in general it doesnt matter too much the end result or revelation, it is how great you make that revelation to spectators with your personality, expression, speech, patter, whatever you wanna call it. I believe one can take the simplest trick with no moves and make it the best trick a person has ever seen in their life with this idea. But who am i ? i am still kinda young and naive and new compared to you guys.
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #11 
Rudy - Stay Stack is noted for its matching possibilitie i.e. the magi and the spec each get a half deck which they deal simultaneously face up looking for a pair of color mates. The item I'm writing up for the Card Corner (August) is a three phase matching routine that uses Stay Stack. The first phase retains full order. The second phase returns to original order with one cut of one of the packets. The third phase is the strongest. It's basically the type of matching used by Eddie Joseph in The Invisible Influence. In that case returning to original order requires some displacements. But they're not super difficult. I'm looking at the process to see if there's an easy pattern that can get you back to original order. I'll let you know if I find something.

BTW Patrick Redford's new book has some stay stack routines. I'll take a look to see if there's one that meets your requirements.

Mike
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siahofmars

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Reply with quote  #12 
haha, nice harry! well i kinda really just started for real delving into magic in the last year, im learning as much as i can as fast as i can, i have been working through the card colleges to get all the main basics down. and then definitely was thinking of delving into some memory things. The book lots have directed me to is mnemonica, what do u guys think about that?
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Waterman

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Reply with quote  #13 
Hey Siah...there was a time where many of us...actually ALL of us... were at the point where your at. When I first started out in magic (pre-internet days) I remember asking someone who Dai Vernon was and they looked at me like I had two heads. It's tough being a newbie sometimes!

As you become more familiar with our community and the magicians who represent it, you'll begin to be exposed to the books, routines, and marketed effects which have the potential to take your magic to the next level.

Best of luck with your goals...there are many wonderful and talented folks here who can guide you through your journey!!
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #14 

         I'm sure that many magic newbies now would ask who Harry Lorayne is!  But I wasn't referring to magic which is a tiny fraction of the milieu in which I'm known for memory training.

      I just imagined/thought that with books going as far back as 1956 (The Memory Book, Super-Power Memory, Page-A-Minute Memory Book, Memory Makes Money, Super Memory-Super Student!, Remembering People, Ageless Memory, etc.) that have sold over 18 million copies, in 11 languages (that I know of) and with MANY appearances on just about every major TV show all over the world (24 times on The Tonight Show; many times on David Susskind, Mike Douglas, The Today Show, Good Morning America, Paul Daniels Show and Michael Parkinson Show (England), Merv Griffin - and on and on) that if new/young people didn't know me "from magic" they'd know me "from memory training".

      Oh well...fleeting fame!!

 

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Bmat

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterman
Hey Siah...there was a time where many of us...actually ALL of us... were at the point where your at. When I first started out in magic (pre-internet days) I remember asking someone who Dai Vernon was and they looked at me like I had two heads. It's tough being a newbie sometimes!

As you become more familiar with our community and the magicians who represent it, you'll begin to be exposed to the books, routines, and marketed effects which have the potential to take your magic to the next level.

Best of luck with your goals...there are many wonderful and talented folks here who can guide you through your journey!!


Not to derail this thread, but really what will take you to the next level is going out and performing.   

Tricks don't make the magician, the magician makes the tricks.  Find what you are comfortable with and get out there. We are all different with different views, quirks what have you.  

For example I have never found a need or want to do any memorized work, or use a stacked deck.  Sure there are great routines one can accomplish with such tools, but there are just as many where you don't.   

Really depends on your style. 

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Bmat

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne

         I'm sure that many magic newbies now would ask who Harry Lorayne is!  But I wasn't referring to magic which is a tiny fraction of the milieu in which I'm known for memory training.

      I just imagined/thought that with books going as far back as 1956 (The Memory Book, Super-Power Memory, Page-A-Minute Memory Book, Memory Makes Money, Super Memory-Super Student!, Remembering People, Ageless Memory, etc.) that have sold over 18 million copies, in 11 languages (that I know of) and with MANY appearances on just about every major TV show all over the world (24 times on The Tonight Show; many times on David Susskind, Mike Douglas, The Today Show, Good Morning America, Paul Daniels Show and Michael Parkinson Show (England), Merv Griffin - and on and on) that if new/young people didn't know me "from magic" they'd know me "from memory training".

      Oh well...fleeting fame!!

 



And I have to agree with the above.  In my previous post I was talking about magic.  But Harry makes a great point.   My degree is in Sociology, classical social thought.  With my memory I could not keep all those old philosophers straight when I was in University.  I was in my fathers magic shop one day and picked up Harry's memory book.  

His system allowed me to not only allow me to remember who was which,  I was able to link the theories to the philosophers.  

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siahofmars

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Reply with quote  #17 
i totally agree with all of your guys points, and one of the things i do , focus on and do every single week, is go out and perform my magic. I am a musician as well and i run an open mic and do alot of gigs in town, so i have been doing magic as well for people at those places, because its great opportunity. i am a huge fan of performing, performing, performing, and its already comfortable for me because i have been performing music in front of thousands of people for years in my old band days etc. but yes i will definitely get into the memory thing after i finish these books i am on right now. and like i said close up magic by harry was one of the first books that i purchased, so i trust your judgement harry. and thanks everyone else for their input as well. i take all of it into consideration.

Besides i could use the memory training to make up for the memory cells i lost from all the beer 😋

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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #18 

    I know your last line is a joke, but - my memory systems/techniques have helped people with worse problems than "beer" to a fantastic degree. Bob Norland (who was on one of my TV infomercials for my MEMORY POWER COURSE) had a stroke when in his seventies. Doctors told him his memory would stop working to all intents and purposes. Well, someone gave him a copy of one of my books - and he's on my infomercial saying that his memory is many times better now than it was before the stroke - he does memory demonstrations at clubs, etc.

    How he got onto one of my TV informercials:  He sent me a letter telling me all of the above - with a photo...he's in a wheelchair; lives in California. I called and asked if he'd say these things on camera, etc. He said "of course." I arranged for a camera crew to go to his home and film him.

 

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siahofmars

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Reply with quote  #19 
i totally believe you, i know memory training is the best thing you can do for your mind.
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris w


For a trick that specifically makes use of stay-stack properties, the first phase or two of Marlo's Matching Routine, as popularized by Martin Nash in his Ovation act, needn't disarrange much.


Nash's Ovation is very strong IMHO..
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Bobby Forbes

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Reply with quote  #21 
Denis Behr has a couple great routines on his 4 dvd set and in his books that do exactly this.  He has multiple back to back routines that flow nicely and reset themselves back into order.  Very fun stuff!
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