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ParaSailor

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Reply with quote  #1 
I've done the anniversary waltz for a decade or more.  Recently I saw a new version of the waltz, the siamese waltz by Bennie Chickering.  Being unable to get mail at the moment, I've had to download the videos and make the necessary gaffs by hand but all I can say is WOW!  For such an amazing trick, the handling is easy and the restoration is eye-popping.  The method seems so simple but still so far out of the box that I couldn't have come up with an explanation for it myself.  I'm enjoying it now but can't wait to get to a larger audience to test it out.  Has anyone else started performing this one yet?   What were your results?
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #2 
I just bought this. Looks great!
Thanks for mentioning it!

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #3 
This response is kind of blending the issue of internet exposure with the subject of this specific trick.  So I did what a lot of folks would do and went straight to the internet and looked up Siamese Waltz hoping to just see the effect.  I saw that there is one by the creator as well as the usual youtube versions.  So I watched the "authorized" video and had a bit of an idea as to how it could be done.  Then I went to youtube where I saw a young boy do the trick.  He was not great.  With one viewing it confirmed to me how it is done.  There is a discrepancy in one phase of the trick that you have to manage and the kid didn't manage it at all.  Terrible.

I then noticed a fellow from the UK had a video where he demonstrates the trick and then offers to email the solution if you like the video and then send him your email address.  

I confronted him, telling him that he has no right to rip off the creator of the trick.  I also reported him to Ellusionist, whereupon I got this reply...


Hello Ray,

Unfortunately there's nothing we can do about this. He's not using our video, so it's not copyright infringement. It's up to the community to let guys like this know we don't appreciate what he's doing to the creators.

I hope others have reported this, but I found this on youtube today and this guy obviously isn't authorized to show the workings. His performance sucks too. You can easily work out the method just watching his video. The link is here:

 
There is a "hidden" lesson in here.  If you cannot do a trick well enough to not inadvertently expose the method, DON'T DO IT!  Or at least not until you can. 

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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ
This response is kind of blending the issue of internet exposure with the subject of this specific trick.  So I did what a lot of folks would do and went straight to the internet and looked up Siamese Waltz hoping to just see the effect.  I saw that there is one by the creator as well as the usual youtube versions.  So I watched the "authorized" video and had a bit of an idea as to how it could be done.  Then I went to youtube where I saw a young boy do the trick.  He was not great.  With one viewing it confirmed to me how it is done.  There is a discrepancy in one phase of the trick that you have to manage and the kid didn't manage it at all.  Terrible.

I then noticed a fellow from the UK had a video where he demonstrates the trick and then offers to email the solution if you like the video and then send him your email address.  

I confronted him, telling him that he has no right to rip off the creator of the trick.  I also reported him to Ellusionist, whereupon I got this reply...


Hello Ray,

Unfortunately there's nothing we can do about this. He's not using our video, so it's not copyright infringement. It's up to the community to let guys like this know we don't appreciate what he's doing to the creators.

I hope others have reported this, but I found this on youtube today and this guy obviously isn't authorized to show the workings. His performance sucks too. You can easily work out the method just watching his video. The link is here:
There is a "hidden" lesson in here.  If you cannot do a trick well enough to not inadvertently expose the method, DON'T DO IT!  Or at least not until you can. 



There really isn't anything that we can do about it. Even the HaLo Project has made it's way onto Chinese websites that are selling them without my permission.

In this age of technology where information is so easily shared and transferred, it's just something that we'll have to grow accustomed to.

I understand the heart behind why you're sharing the video, but posting the link may do more harm than good(?). It's only drawing more public viewers to his link.

Anyway, I doubt that the average spectator is going to go through the trouble of Googling the method of the trick 😉

I'm happy with my purchase. The directions demonstrate how to make the gimmick, and I'm willing to put in the time and effort to do so, but I'm glad that it comes with enough of them for 10 performances. This is something that I can really see myself performing.

Rudy



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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #5 
Rudy, please remove my post if you believe it is counterproductive.  I definitely don't want to promote this guy or his youtube account.  I'm sure not a bunch of folks have seen it yet.
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ParaSailor

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Reply with quote  #6 
YouTube has been a great disservice to the magic community.  It seems like every preteen with a camera is on there trying to get likes by exposing tricks that their parents paid for them to learn.  I personally enjoy the trick, haven't performed it outside of practice yet but hope to have it down well enough within the next week to take it out with me to try out.
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Bmat

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Reply with quote  #7 
I've never understood how people. when obviously so bad at something go ahead and put it out there for the world to see.  Don't they even look at the video before they post it?  Don't they have any sort of pride?  Or are they truly thinking they are wonderful?
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Dave Campbell

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmat
I've never understood how people. when obviously so bad at something go ahead and put it out there for the world to see.  Don't they even look at the video before they post it?  Don't they have any sort of pride?  Or are they truly thinking they are wonderful?


I've asked that many times -- most often, the card-handling is awful -- so heavy-handed, just counting the cards one hand to the other they bend the crap out of them... and whatever 'secret' they paid for is exposed by their unwillingness to practice it more than once before going to YouTube. I've even seen guys drop cards, pick them up, and continue -- have you heard of editing? or starting over?

I pretty much stay away from magic on YouTube any more unless I'm trying to see if something from an older book may have been posted... otherwise it's hard to pick through the junk!

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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmat
I've never understood how people. when obviously so bad at something go ahead and put it out there for the world to see.  Don't they even look at the video before they post it?  Don't they have any sort of pride?  Or are they truly thinking they are wonderful?


In my experience, it’s very common that most people think more highly of themselves than they ought to. So common that tv shows capitalize on it. Think of all the people on American Idol or So You Think You Can Dance, who truly believe that they are incredibly gifted and talented. It’s mind boggling, but will only get worse because we live in a culture where everyone gets a friggin trophy.

All we can do is try to raise up children and grandchildren who don’t conform to the pattern of this culture. That begins with modeling that self-aware behavior ourselves.

Rudy

p.s. I’ve recently come to the conclusion that in the world of the Magicians’s Forum, there is no such thing as derailing a thread. Let’s allow this conversation to flow naturally :)

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Intensely Magic

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Reply with quote  #10 
Everything old is new again.

I'm sure I'm not the only old goat that remembers The Gong Show.

PS Looking on YouTube it looks like they tried a fairly recent remake......

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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmat
I've never understood how people. when obviously so bad at something go ahead and put it out there for the world to see.  Don't they even look at the video before they post it?  Don't they have any sort of pride?  Or are they truly thinking they are wonderful?


Oh, it's so common there's a name and explanation for it. The name is the Dunning-Kruger effect. And while I generally do not suggest Wikipedia as a primary source, this brief introduction to the Dunning-Kruger effect might spur additional research for some.

Enjoy and be amazed!

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Dave Campbell

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Reply with quote  #12 
Av --

Love that -- I've worked with quite a few of those! I guess anything that's going on, somebody can put a name to 😉

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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #13 
Didn't  Daryl market something like that?

I came across exposures on amazon the other day, looking at magic and the bottom of the page there was series of exposure videos, some of which seemed pointless as you needed gaffs to do them, like Devano Rising Cards but called "Elevator Cards" etc. I think the series was called Howzat or something like that.

By the way, for an ungaffed method of getting two names together on one card check out my "Back Together" p.143 of "Magic From the Overgound" or Paul Harris's "Hi There. Baby Cakes" from "A Close-Up Kinda Guy' p.22.

I used to regularly use my routine rather than "Anniversary Waltz".
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hallas
Didn't  Daryl market something like that?

I came across exposures on amazon the other day, looking at magic and the bottom of the page there was series of exposure videos, some of which seemed pointless as you needed gaffs to do them, like Devano Rising Cards but called "Elevator Cards" etc. I think the series was called Howzat or something like that.

By the way, for an ungaffed method of getting two names together on one card check out my "Back Together" p.143 of "Magic From the Overgound" or Paul Harris's "Hi There. Baby Cakes" from "A Close-Up Kinda Guy' p.22.

I used to regularly use my routine rather than "Anniversary Waltz".


Very similar, but no tearing just folding. Still available on Daryl.net and called " Half-a-transposition." While the cards aren't signed in Daryl's version, it is still effective and you don't have the painstaking work to prepare the cards.
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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ


Very similar, but no tearing just folding. Still available on Daryl.net and called " Half-a-transposition." While the cards aren't signed in Daryl's version, it is still effective and you don't have the painstaking work to prepare the cards.


That's it! Apart from playing cards he had another version with business card sized printed cards showing rods and planks of wood which incorporated the "Out to Lunch" principle. I recall having that. 
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