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rready

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Reply with quote  #1 
Just curious what others say when they are about to do a faro shuffle.  
 
Mike said in the session on Sat. someone called it a web shuffle.

I'd be curious what Harry's favorite line is when he is about to do one.

I usually like to say it's the fairest shuffle you can give a deck of cards. Is it best just to do it and not say anything?
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Waterman

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Reply with quote  #2 
I was doing faro shuffles while watching television the other night. My wife looked up from her magazine and peered up over her glasses to watch.

She smiled, shook her head and went back to reading her magazine.

"What now?!" I demanded...knowing full well she was going to pick on me for my obsession with magic.

She replied, "Nobody I knows shuffles a deck like that other than magicians...don't you think people might be suspicious when you shuffle like that?".

I told her to start a topic on the Magic Café regarding her theory and stormed off to bed...LAYMEN!
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JohnnyNewYork

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Reply with quote  #3 
Rready -- Hello!  First off, I liked the way you handled the Faro on the recent trick you shared/posted -- your patter seemed quite logical and suited the action perfectly!  

The downside to a Faro is the fact that for most of us "mortals" it requires a little concentration and time from the performer and we have to momentarily focus on the cards.  The upside is that lay persons see it not only as a thorough shuffle but also as a flourish (they do NOT see it as a card control, especially since it is done in the open). 

Aside from those guys who can execute 8 Perfect Faros inside of a minute (with cards in ANY condition), it is probably best for most of us to slow things down at least a little while doing the shuffle.  That means we will have some dead time with the audience, especially when the routine calls for two or (rarely) three Faros.  I like the idea of using patter to justify taking a little extra time to carefully (and THOROUGHLY) shuffle the cards.  Harry Lorayne does things quite quickly (his natural New York speed!), and his accompanying patter is not necessarily about the shuffle, just something that audiences find fascinating  -- it feels like an "inside scoop" about cards, gambling, or whatever (example, he references "furniture men" in his Card Sharp/Gamblers routine). 

The bottom line is you always have to make every action logical but entertaining to the audience in some way (easier said than done, at least for me!).  Another factor is how accurate the Faro has to be.  If all you need is the top ten cards to weave perfectly, you obviously can increase the tempo during the shuffle.  Sometimes, if I need a second Faro, I mention slowing the second shuffle down a little so they can clearly see the cards being mixed (it seems logical and takes some pressure off of me).  In some situations I even see guys take time to spread the interlaced cards on the table AFTER the shuffle to demonstrate the shuffle's fairness (although I know some magicians disagree with that approach as they feel it is tipping it as a control). 

I was amazed at Paul Gertner on P&T doing several Perfect Faros with absolute ease under extreme pressure -- that's what happens when you apparently spend a lifetime working on the Faro.  However, I have seen just about EVERYONE run into a "stubborn deck" and have to redo the shuffle from time to time.  In my experience, some decks (even within the same brand) seem to naturally Faro, and that gives me confidence to execute the shuffle a little faster (unfortunately, those decks eventually get worn out).

Bottom line, I think you can take whatever REASONABLE time you need as long as that additional time is justified/presented in a logical and entertaining way, and as Dani DaOrtiz has said, your personality is your greatest asset.  Whenever I'm at a convention or something, I see guys practicing the Faro all the time, but I'm sure there are many guys on the Forum that will tell you nothing can simulate what happens in live situations. 

Sorry for the rather long rambling post, but your question is something I've also had to deal with, and I'm sure others have similar issues.  In the meantime, I practice more Faros whenever I can!  johnny
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Amazer

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Reply with quote  #4 
I don't usually say anything.  I tend to do Faros a lot even when not necessary, just so it looks like that's how I normally shuffle.

I do a table Faro that looks like the standard thumb riffle that's familiar to most people anyway.  I do that one when I don't want anyone to have even the slightest possibility of retracing and realizing that a perfect weave could help accomplish the effect.

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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #5 
I don't think magicians 'shuffle' like normal people.  I don't do faro tricks anymore, but when I did I remarked on the sound you get when you waterfall a faro'd deck, and I'd talk about how much I loved that sound when shuffling.
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alicauchy

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi Han Yeo
I don't think magicians 'shuffle' like normal people.  I don't do faro tricks anymore, but when I did I remarked on the sound you get when you waterfall a faro'd deck, and I'd talk about how much I loved that sound when shuffling.


Sometimes, when in need of two consecutive faros I comment on the "doubly perfect" shuffle, perfect because you can listen to it (while cascading the cards after the 1st weaving) and because you can see it (while spreading the intertwined halves on the table, 2nd faro). 

I first saw this to Daortiz, although he seldom uses two consecutive faros during performance.

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Steven Youell

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Reply with quote  #7 
The answer to your question is entirely dependent on context.
At least it is for me...

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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #8 
I say,

"This is called a faro shuffle. You don't see it much anymore, it's a precise way of shuffling the cards like a casino uses shuffle machines."

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #9 
I think it's Allan Ackerman that calls the faro a "Web shuffle." I haven't asked him what the purpose of that name is, but I'd guess that 1. You can't find it with a google search and 2. it justifies the somewhat strange qualities it has e.g. the way the cards are held etc.

My farsightedness is making it difficult for me to see where the cards in each half deck are, relative to each other. I need a new prescription. Hopefully that will help alleviate the problem I'm having. I feel confident of a shuffle designed to just interweave a portion for a poke deal as in 2 faros for a 4 handed deal. You don't need to nail IN/OUT for that.

For a sandwich effect where you must cut perfectly and nail the shuffle, I would use one of the Turner decks or the new Penguin decks. They faro like butter.

One thing to keep in mind when using a faro in a sandwich effect is that the shuffle only needs to be perfect up to and including the sandwich cards which are generally reversed and easy to spot in the deck. So, if a discrepancy occurs after that position, it won't hurt the effect.

Johnny NY and I recently saw Jason Ladayne at Abbott's Close Up. He used a load of faros in his work. An important lesson learned from watching him is that one must patter through the shuffle i.e. not pause silently while shuffling. Also a spread showing the tight shuffle is good. However, I think it's good to push the spread around a bit so that the perfect alternation isn't obvious.

Mike
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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #10 
My friend Tony says, "I'm going to faro shuffle now."  
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luigimar

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Reply with quote  #11 
I am with Amazer... I shuffle cards using a faro shuffle or a riffle shuffle or an overhand shuffle interchangeably and I just say I am shuffling cards without calling too much attention to the way I do it and so when I faro shuffle, it doesn't seem strange. If I am just shuffling without needing a perfect faro, I do it without looking too much. When I need a perfect shuffle, then I pay a little more attention so I don't mess up. If I mess up, I follow Michael Close's advice that he gives in his Devious DVD vol. 2.









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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #12 
I don't say anything and I faro shuffle a lot. I don't say anything about any shuffle. I just shuffle. 
However, I don't do any tricks that need a faro shuffle. I just happen to do it. 
I'm sure at some point I'll find a good trick that needs it and I'll be ready. 

That being said; yes, we don't shuffle like mere mortals because we can actually shuffle. 
How many times have you asked someone to shuffle the cards only to have the experience become painful to watch and somewhat hurtful to your deck? 
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Jabs Mckee

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Reply with quote  #13 
I don't really say anything about the shuffle either.  The audience seems to understand that magicians would shuffle in a fancy way.  I don't want to give them to much to think about and then ask questions about later.

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magicfish

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Reply with quote  #14 
It depends on the effect of course, but I will often utilize a Harry Lorayne ploy and actually point out that each and every card perfectly interlaces.
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arthur stead

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Reply with quote  #15 

I don’t do the Faro, but depending on the trick or routine, I will sometimes comment about my shuffles.  Sometimes to add humor, and at other times to emphasize how the selected card is getting lost.


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Bob Farmer

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Reply with quote  #16 
As when I'm doing the Elmsley count (I announce, "I will now do the Elmsley Count"), I say I will now do the Faro Shuffle. This allows people to Google what I've said and figure everything out. However, when better judgment prevails, I either say nothing (since the audience expects you to handle cards differently) or I claim it's the only casino shuffle approved by the Nevada Gambling Commission. If you're going to lie, lie big.
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #17 
I concur with Bob's point re: naming sleights. Google will show what a faro shuffle can do. I think that's why Ackerman calls it a "web shuffle."

Jeff McBride advises magi not to use names like "Invisible Deck" etc. He recounts an experience where he was performing "Crazy Man's Handcuffs" in a walk-around environment. While he was performing it, someone tapped him on the shoulder and showed him a YouTube video playing on his phone that explained the trick. He had used the name "Crazy Man's Handcuffs."

Somethings are vulnerable because they are easily described as in "The card keeps coming to the top." Not saying "Ambitious Card" may not save the day. Although saying "Ambitious Card" will make the google search very easy. Unfortunately, I think googling "Rubber bands penetrate" will be about as good as calling it "Crazy Man's Handcuffs." 

But telling specs that it's a "Faro Shuffle" will definitely give them entree to an expose video. Whereas calling it a "web shuffle" gives them a false clue.

Mike
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #18 
Makes perfect sense to me. If someone's going to Google, they're going to Google. The less information we provide, the harder they have to work and the greater the likelihood they may just decide to drop the search. Even we mere amateurs have had it happen. And here I thought the 21st century would bring us flying cars!

Perhaps we should just rename everything we do. Palming becomes Hand Jiving; Elmsley Counts are now Ghostly Galumphs; Double Undercut renamed Curtain Climber... As for tricks and effects: Out of This World is now Extraterrestrial; Twisting the Aces becomes Auntie Em, Auntie Em!; Cards Across = Paper Route...

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Stevie Ray

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Reply with quote  #19 
"This is how dealers in European casinos shuffle the cards. (head nodding) You've seen it in those early James Bond movies, haven't you?... It's called the Monte Carlo."
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Bob Farmer

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Reply with quote  #20 
For the Ambitious Card I refer to the top card of the deck as Area 52. Everyone knows about Area 51 where the U.S. government hides all it knows about flying saucers and aliens. Magicians have a similar location where strange things happen--it's called Area 52, right here on top of the deck. 
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Stevie Ray

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Reply with quote  #21 
I have also seen Jason Ladanye lecture. He does not refer to the action. Rather he maintains eye contact and sticks to his story.

Nico Pierri does the same. His finesse leads me to believe taking one's attention away from the cards will take the heat off as well.
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rready

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Reply with quote  #22 
I'm so glad I asked this question. Bob's answer made a lot of sense to me. Imagine saying, Now I'll do a double lift. So I think calling it an underground shuffle,  or Web shuffle is the best way to go or like others have said, just do it and say nothing. In some of my video's I know I said a faro shuffle before I did the faro. Thank you for all the answers, I learned a lot from them.
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EndersGame

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Reply with quote  #23 
There's some great posts and suggestions here, I really enjoyed reading everyone's contribution.

The point about avoiding terminology that is searchable is a very good one, especially now that we live in a tech era where people carry smart phones with instant access to google.  I never use terms like "Invisible Deck" or "Crazy Man's Handcuffs" for that reason. 

The term "faro shuffle" is less problematic, since it is clearly a skilled move, and not a trick in and of itself.  Even so, I love Bob Farmer's line: "I claim it's the only casino shuffle approved by the Nevada Gambling Commission", and the suggestion by magicfish to point out that each and every card perfectly interlaces.

The reality is that we magicians rarely shuffle like lay-folk do.  Another example is the Hindu shuffle; it may appear natural and normal to us (especially due to its value in controlling or forcing a card), but to the average person, it's a bizarre method of shuffling that they've likely not seen before.  But I don't see this as too big of a problem - they realize we are very experienced in handling cards, and are able to do things that the average person can't, including more advanced shuffling techniques.

When I do a faro shuffle, I sometimes complete the shuffle after the weave by going into a cascade, which adds some visual appeal, and emphasizes it even more.

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Gareth

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Reply with quote  #24 
Depending importantly on context, I sometimes use patter along the lines of “If I shuffle like this..*overhand shuffle* or this *riffle shuffle*.. some cards can clump together so it isn’t really the best shuffle. The best one is this one.. *faro* as you can see all cards are mixed up..*faro again* as much as you can. Listen. I too make the most of the sound, a Da Ortiz product.
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tommyellison

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Reply with quote  #25 
I state this as I do it....

"I am now giving the deck what many refer to as the "Egyptian Faro" shuffle....

It was taught to me by an old doctor who lived in Cairo....

Ok, he wasn't really a doctor......[Pause]  he was a "Cairo-Practor"

NOTE: I work for groans and laughs.....

Tommy

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John Cowne

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Reply with quote  #26 
This is the tragedy of coming late into a great forum...there's so much good stuff that by the time I check out all the old stuff, the new stuff is old as well! I love the Faro...and hate it. I don't say anything when I am Faroing/Webbing; my tongue is sticking out,  I break out sweating, and there's a perceptible tremor in the hands. So I can't say anything. It's physiologically impossible... unless I cry out, "Shut up, can't you see I'm concentrating??!". It startles the cat. It sort of puts off spectators as well, I've noticed. In the mean-time, I just tell my few magi-friends it's my new method for splitting cards to make gaffs..that's what it looks like.
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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #27 
I've heard it referred to as a shuffle known to an old card game from the back rooms.  Or big stakes games needing a fair shuffle.  JohnnyNewYork's point that it takes a little concentration, which is ok, but something that should be a casual shuffle becomes a move or "something" if you have to try a second time because the first wasn't perfect. 
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Paco Nagata

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Reply with quote  #28 
"...now let's give it a good shuffle..."

is what I personally usually say.

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Alan Smithee

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Reply with quote  #29 

Long post. If you can’t sleep, this will do the trick.

As we know:

There are two basic methods of executing the faro shuffle. The table faro and the in-the-hands faro. Many have expressed disdain for the in-the-hands technique as a gambling tool as it does not simulate accepted and acceptable card table manners; whatever they may be. However, the table faro, so the argument goes, does. Well, perhaps the table faro simulates proper card table technique, whatever that is, perhaps not. I personally doubt it, not the way I've seen it performed anyway.

I’ve used the in-the-hands technique ever since I learned it from “Revolutionary Card Technique,” chapter six by Ed Marlo; aided and abetted by chapter seven, “Faro Notes.” This wasn’t last week, I hasten to add.

These are the original soft cover green-backed efforts published by Magic Inc in the late 50s and early 60s.

The faro shuffle is quite mannered, but it is a shuffle. The problem, when performing gambling demonstrations is how to overcome the mannered and conditional nature of the shuffle. The answer for me, is not to try. Harry Lorayne was one of the first to advocate actually showing the fairness of the shuffle, or at least one of the first I came across. I had the same thought myself and I’m sure many other did too.

I haven’t played cards on a regular basis for years and when I did the company I played in all used the overhand shuffle. Often, but not every day, some clever clogs would use the riffle shuffle. Being one such, I did myself. Whenever I felt in the mood table or in-the-hands to suit the situation.

Rather than “merely” pointing out one-to-one-interweave fairness of the thing, my approach is to take this even further, by pointing up the fact that all the action takes place at the finger tips.

So that’s what I call it: The Fingertip Shuffle.  Because, well, that's what it is.

Everything can be seen. There are no sudden or hidden manoeuvres. And by fibbing a bit (more than a bit, really) and saying that in fast gambling company this is the shuffle they often/always insist on, everybody watches closely. They see what they are meant to see—the shuffle—and accept the genuine nature of the procedure.

After all, whatever else it may be the faro is a genuine shuffle. What gives the magician the edge is that he has some idea of what the outcome of the shuffle is likely be.

The shuffle technique needs to be up to snuff, of course.

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Bill Guinee

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Reply with quote  #30 
I going to shuffle by smushing the ends together, like this. (the last thing I want to mention is how precise it is).
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