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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #1 
It seems like every magician these days gets to a point in a "pick-a-card" trick where they say "for the first time, what was your card?"

I totally get the meaning behind it. You want to imply that nobody but that spectator knows the value of the selected card - that it has not been mentioned out loud until this point.

It's like it's mandatory for every magician to say that before the big reveal.

Does anyone know where this phrase comes from?
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #2 
From wedding DJ's.
Ladies and gentlemen, for the first time in public, as husband and wife, put your hands together for.......

This is because the DJ is never at the reception and doesn't realize they already were in public right after the ceremony.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #3 
Where it originated we shall probably never know. Obviously NLP-related.  As to what it means and why it evolved, it seems a blatant attempt to point out the impossibility of what's about to be revealed. A sort of recombinant recapitulation, if you will, a genetic breakdown of what was to reinforce what about to be. Since we magi tend to pass around cliche lines like a fat boy at an outdoor music festival the phrase has long outlived its purpose. And as to why so many magicians use the phrase, well, that's because magicians are people and people stop thinking way too soon. What other ways can you think of to express the same sentiment?
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EVILDAN

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Maybe.
I just made it up, but still, maybe.
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Anthony Vinson

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVILDAN
Maybe.
I just made it up, but still, maybe.


So there was this magician who moonlighted as a wedding DJ. One night he was in the middle of a card trick when he realizes it is time for the bride/groom slow dance. "For the first time' he boldly announces to all and then covers the mic with his hand, whispering to the spectator who selected a card - 'name your card' - then seamlessly uncovering the mic, and with nary a hesitation detected by the inebriated audience continues, 'please welcome Mr. and Mrs. Jones!" As the theme from Titanic as interpreted by Celine Dione blasts across the lawn, the clever magi reveals the spectators card as the Queen of Hearts. Perfect symmetry is achieved. 

Yeah, maybe! [biggrin]
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KenTheriot

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[biggrin]
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KenTheriot

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Yeah, if only to do some little thing to differentiate myself, that phrase will not be in my repertoire.
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Chi Han

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson
Where it originated we shall probably never know. Obviously NLP-related.  As to what it means and why it evolved, it seems a blatant attempt to point out the impossibility of what's about to be revealed. A sort of recombinant recapitulation, if you will, a genetic breakdown of what was to reinforce what about to be. Since we magi tend to pass around cliche lines like a fat boy at an outdoor music festival the phrase has long outlived its purpose. And as to why so many magicians use the phrase, well, that's because magicians are people and people stop thinking way too soon. What other ways can you think of to express the same sentiment?


It's just whatever works really. I doubt the phrase has outlived it's purpose, or exists only as a result of lazy thinking.

Here's Harry Lorayne using it:



Here's Bill Malone using it:



Here's Dani DaOrtiz using it



The list goes on. Is it used a lot, definitely so. Is it overused? Does it detract/is it negatove towards the magic? I don't think so. Just because we see something a lot does not mean lay people see it so frequently. I don't think we should be so quick to dismiss things because they're cliche, and usually it's not the line, but the magician that's important.

A lot of people strive for originality, but originality for the sake of originality isn't necessarily better than the hack line. There can be a real good reason to use that particular line. Dreaming up some strange esoteric equivalent may be original yes, but not necessarily better.
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KenTheriot

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chi Han Yeo


- Just because we see something a lot does not mean lay people see it so frequently.

- A lot of people strive for originality, but originality for the sake of originality isn't necessarily better than the hack line. There can be a real good reason to use that particular line. Dreaming up some strange esoteric equivalent may be original yes, but not necessarily better.


Totally agree. It certainly was not my intent to try some unnatural or esoteric thing in search of originality. I just made an off-hand comment about differentiating as a joke. I don't have any deep feelings about it one way or another. I just hear it so often I wondered if it was something I was missing - like everyone in "magic school" was being told this or something :-P. 

Still learning here. There is so much I don't know.
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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenTheriot


Totally agree. It certainly was not my intent to try some unnatural or esoteric thing in search of originality. I just made an off-hand comment about differentiating as a joke. I don't have any deep feelings about it one way or another. I just hear it so often I wondered if it was something I was missing - like everyone in "magic school" was being told this or something :-P. 

Still learning here. There is so much I don't know.


Just try it out, if it doesn't work for you don't use it. If you feel it's corny then maybe it is corny for you, in whatever context. I think avoiding a line because you personally feel it doesn't work for you is a great thing to do, and I agree with Anthony that we shouldn't use it out of laziness. I just don't think we should also dismiss the line for everybody, or throw it away just for the sake of being original.

There's lines I don't use because I don't think they're very good. Some I tried out and they worked, but it didn't feel like 'me' doing them.

e.g. Now I'll make the two switch places....now I'm going to make them switch back.

I'm going to read your mind....not much to read but still...

There are also lines that are just too good I try to avoid them as a crutch. I used to do a lot of Bill Malone routines, and when I started out I would just steal Bill's lines. He mentions this in his On the Loose DVD's, that he doesn't mind others using the lines when starting out, but that eventually we should look to doing our own stuff. That's how our 'characters' develop, and that's when we start really getting good. And it's hard. My stuff isn't nearly as funny or as good as Bill's, and when I first started departing from it I wasn't getting nearly as good a reaction than when I was just copying him. But I think I'm better off, and I think magic as a craft benefits from it too.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #11 
Chi Han Yeo, I did not accuse anyone of lazy thinking; I said they stop thinking. Big diff.

Jargon and stock lines are patterns easily followed, and whether they work or not they remain jargon or stock lines. If they work for you - I mean you in a general sense, not you personally - then by all means use them. Frankly they annoy me, and as such I try to avoid them. Pet peeve? Yeah, but it grew during my corporate days when everyone spoke automatically using the phrases and terms until they had lost their original meaning. Just the way my mind works. 

As I mentioned earlier, I think the phrase in question is simply an expedient, and as such it may be expressed in a number of ways, many of them situational. What other phrases might we use to reiterate the situation or recap?  

Peace 
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #12 
I use any phrase that magicians may think is over-used when I feel that it's APROPOS at that moment.  I frankly doubt if any LAYMAN watching me do Would You Believe In Mindreading? (in the above video - which in itself may be considered to be "over-used") would stop to think - "Gee; what an overused phrase."
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #13 
    When I said this above - "I use any phrase that magicians may think is over-used when I feel that it's APROPOS at that moment."  I meant to add "without thinking about it." I rarely "plan" a specific word or phrase. Not my "thing"  - it's just what "comes out" at that moment.
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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson
Chi Han Yeo, I did not accuse anyone of lazy thinking; I said they stop thinking. Big diff.

Jargon and stock lines are patterns easily followed, and whether they work or not they remain jargon or stock lines. If they work for you - I mean you in a general sense, not you personally - then by all means use them. Frankly they annoy me, and as such I try to avoid them. Pet peeve? Yeah, but it grew during my corporate days when everyone spoke automatically using the phrases and terms until they had lost their original meaning. Just the way my mind works. 

As I mentioned earlier, I think the phrase in question is simply an expedient, and as such it may be expressed in a number of ways, many of them situational. What other phrases might we use to reiterate the situation or recap?  

Peace 


My bad, I misinterpreted you.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #15 
Interesting...just watched myself performing my own Would You Believe In Mindreading? - which I haven't done, or thought of in many years - and I FOOLED MYSELF REAL BAD!  I didn't catch my own "important piece" (which I'd simply forgotten about) during the performance. And if you don't catch that "important piece" you'd have to be completely fooled - it's an impossibility. Had to look it up to learn how I fooled myself! Amazing.
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KenTheriot

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Reply with quote  #16 
That's hilarious, Harry! Now I need to look into that trick, which is on page 205 of Quantum Leaps - for anyone else who may not already know [smile].
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