Sign up Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,156
Reply with quote  #1 
So I was thinking about comments that Paul Harris made on Issue 1 of Reel Magic Magazine.  If you don't currently have a subscription I recommend you waste no time and sign up.
In addition to all of the magazines there are lectures and individual tricks to be learned.
And don't forget Rudy's Apocalypse Now tutorials every Tuesday!

OK, so I was thinking about Paul's comments.  Cliff Notes version:  Paul separated magic that can be attributed to the performer's "mastery" versus magic that just "seems to happen" (I'm paraphrasing).

Paul says while he appreciates performers that create magic through "mastery" he believes astonishment requires something else, or should I says something less, the appearance that the performer did not "make" the magic happen.  In other words, the inherent skill of the magician is not obvious and the magic seems more organic.  He didn't use the word organic, but I think it sort of fits here.

So what are your thoughts and in which camp do you fall?  Do you perform as a skilled manipulator and desire for your audience to know that YOU are the agent?  Or do you like to present magic where you are almost a bystander, enjoying the astonishment along with the rest of them?
0
Bmat

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 325
Reply with quote  #2 
I don't think it is an 'either' 'or' situation for everyone.  I fall into both camps.  I don't believe my audience will believe the magic just happens.  Not for a moment do I believe that they don't think I am doing something.   However I prefer to take the spectators along for the ride, and in a very real way, I am joining them on that ride.  Lets hop on board and see where this takes us. 
__________________
bmat10@wordpress.com
0
Bizzaro

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #3 
This is why Andy at the Jerx has his "Distracted magician" concept where stuff kinda happens because a real wizard would just do things out of habit.
__________________
Bizzaro.
http://www.bizzaro.ninja
http://www.bizzarobydesign.com
0
Nate Smith

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 66
Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ
So I was thinking about comments that Paul Harris made on Issue 1 of Reel Magic Magazine.  If you don't currently have a subscription I recommend you waste no time and sign up.
In addition to all of the magazines there are lectures and individual tricks to be learned.
And don't forget Rudy's Apocalypse Now tutorials every Tuesday!

OK, so I was thinking about Paul's comments.  Cliff Notes version:  Paul separated magic that can be attributed to the performer's "mastery" versus magic that just "seems to happen" (I'm paraphrasing).

Paul says while he appreciates performers that create magic through "mastery" he believes astonishment requires something else, or should I says something less, the appearance that the performer did not "make" the magic happen.  In other words, the inherent skill of the magician is not obvious and the magic seems more organic.  He didn't use the word organic, but I think it sort of fits here.

So what are your thoughts and in which camp do you fall?  Do you perform as a skilled manipulator and desire for your audience to know that YOU are the agent?  Or do you like to present magic where you are almost a bystander, enjoying the astonishment along with the rest of them?


I think this is very similar to the discussion on technology. If the spectator sees a piece of technology (a smart phone) and can just attribute the magic to something they assume the phone can do, they are less impressed. I think when a magician shows his mastery of sleight of hand and it becomes evident that they can do things you don’t understand, the effect becomes less magical. But, it is still more impressive than technology.
0
Tom G

Inner Circle - Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 994
Reply with quote  #5 
I think Paul's way of thinking is someone in a nice suit acting professional and polished will give the impression of skill.  But someone doing a piece of strange (or something organic) for someone in your vicinity will have more of an effect. Just a different thought on performing.  If you can work a magic piece into a conversation and do one thing in line with the conversation without it being a "magic trick", the perception and effect will be very different.
0
Bulla

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 202
Reply with quote  #6 

I almost exclusively fall in the category of skilled manipulator. There's no argument that showing skill makes the effects less magical, that's a fact. I don't agree with those who extend that to also mean less effective, impressive etc. I think it's more important for it to fit the persona you're projecting. If you're presenting as a magician then displays of skill would only work against you and break that illusion. If you're presenting as a gambler, hustler etc, then not having displays of skill hurts you because people will attribute everything to gimmicks. 

There can be a balance of the two and shifting between them during a set is possible. I feel like Darwin does this very well. He's able to mix in magical effects alongside his gambling demos without either of them taking away from the other. 

0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,156
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Smith


I think this is very similar to the discussion on technology. If the spectator sees a piece of technology (a smart phone) and can just attribute the magic to something they assume the phone can do, they are less impressed. I think when a magician shows his mastery of sleight of hand and it becomes evident that they can do things you don’t understand, the effect becomes less magical. But, it is still more impressive than technology.


I agree, it is very similar. Magical effects tend to become less magical when attributed to technology or skill. They can still be very entertaining and impressive while being less magical.
0
Nate Smith

Avatar / Picture

Inner Circle
Registered:
Posts: 66
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulla

I almost exclusively fall in the category of skilled manipulator. There's no argument that showing skill makes the effects less magical, that's a fact. I don't agree with those who extend that to also mean less effective, impressive etc. I think it's more important for it to fit the persona you're projecting. If you're presenting as a magician then displays of skill would only work against you and break that illusion. If you're presenting as a gambler, hustler etc, then not having displays of skill hurts you because people will attribute everything to gimmicks. 

There can be a balance of the two and shifting between them during a set is possible. I feel like Darwin does this very well. He's able to mix in magical effects alongside his gambling demos without either of them taking away from the other. 



I think you are right on with this.
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,156
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom G
I think Paul's way of thinking is someone in a nice suit acting professional and polished will give the impression of skill.  But someone doing a piece of strange (or something organic) for someone in your vicinity will have more of an effect. Just a different thought on performing.  If you can work a magic piece into a conversation and do one thing in line with the conversation without it being a "magic trick", the perception and effect will be very different.


Totally agree. Paul even mentioned a situation where the magician is the stooge and the layman presents the effect while you do the work. That would freak out the layperson's friends big time.

There is no doubt that organic magic, especially unexpected, kills. The coin in roll at a dinner is a common example. So is vanishing sugar, etc.
0
RayJ

Avatar / Picture

Honored Member
Registered:
Posts: 1,156
Reply with quote  #10 
[QUOTE=Nate Smith]

I think you are right on with this.[/QUOT

Yes, pretty much nailed it. Regarding balance, the one that seems most difficult is magic and mentalism. Of course it depends on how you present them. To me it is hard for one or the other to not suffer a bit.
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.