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Rudy Tinoco

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Me and Nicolás were talking about how magical this routine looks and feels.



If he hadn't picked up the coins and petals, I would've thought he was using an HD screen to accomplish this. Maybe he is.

If there is a coin vanish published somewhere that looks this clean, I'd love to know where to find it!

This is beautiful illusion and it made me feel like magic is real!

Rudy

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #2 
That table is doing a LOT of work. Clearly it's not sleight of hand,but sleight of table. Also,there's a flash at the right corner just before the 3rd coin appears. It's clear that it's not in his hand, but as the card goes down,there's a flash of silver at the outer edge of the card.

With your hands not even near the table, four coins jump back and I'm supposed to believe that you did it? BS - super gaffed table.

Mike


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Gerald Deutsch

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Reply with quote  #3 
How it's done is unimportant to me.

It's entertaining and that's what magic is supposed to be.
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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #4 
I agree with Mike, more special effects via the table than anything else.  Shin Lim had an amazing act he performed on Penn and Teller, using incredible chops and gimmicks.  I got to see him lecture, and he mentioned that the act was more for video, being 12' feet away it was every bit as magical as on TV.   At least Will's be never be for sale at Penguin.
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
That table is doing a LOT of work. Clearly it's not sleight of hand,but sleight of table. Also,there's a flash at the right corner just before the 3rd coin appears. It's clear that it's not in his hand, but as the card goes down,there's a flash of silver at the outer edge of the card.

With your hands not even near the table, four coins jump back and I'm supposed to believe that you did it? BS - super gaffed table.

Mike




Hi Mike, this is definitely more than sleight of hand.

Hard to hold it against the guy. It seems that we're all guilty of using whatever it takes to create an illusion. Of course, the gimmicks that I use aren't as technically advanced as Will's.

One of the problems that I have with America's Got Talent is that I believe that the producers give some of these contestants an added advantage. For example, there was a young man who did a bill to bag of popcorn effect. Of course, we all know how that is done. But he used a bag of popcorn that seemed to belong to Nick Cannon. I'm sure that it did not belong to Nick, but he played along as though it was. That made this seem even more impossible and gave him an added advantage since it was just "borrowed".




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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #6 
The problem with this table is that the audience must surely conclude that the magic is in the table and not in his hands. I may be wrong about that, though. Certainly a number of audience members will conclude that. I'll bet many or most would love to examine the table. 

On P&T they would immediately just tell him that the table is the secret and he'd be busted.

If this was shown in a movie, it would be assumed to be done with special effects.

The skill level is like for an illusion show i.e. be good at dance and body movement. The trick will work itself. 

Next will be a mentalist with a stooge to allow him to do some really serious mind reading. Maybe three stooges...  All you need are stooges who can act.

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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #7 
The problem with the table is what do you do for the second round?
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David

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Open and close compartments. I guess Im not the person to judge or critique this guy but I would think it may be better to tone it down a little and make it look like there could be other explanations for what you are seeing than just outright thats impossible the table is one big gaff. Then again if he had done that we may not be talking about him. Still it was an incredible performance and thing to see.
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Waterman

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I don't care how he did it...I enjoyed it.

Does difficult sleight of hand or the absence of gimmicked props need to be the litmus test for what we should expect from a performing magician? Gosh, I hope not!

Magicians take liberties in different ways to entertain their audiences. Be it the best finger flinging card routine to a box with a slanted mirror inside of it...we are all doing something sneaky to reach our desired goal. With that, certain audience members will always attempt to conclude how our effects are performed. They will want the other hand to be shown open (and empty!) after a wonderful retention pass has just been executed, or they may want to frisk David Copperfield before he "flys" around the stage to make sure he isn't wearing some type of streamlined jet pack.

We as magicians will also be the first in line to critique a performance...especially when traditional sleight of hand skills are compensated for other methods. It almost feels like there is an unwritten rule book that defines what can and cant be used in order to fool an audience.

Like I said, I don't give a blank how he did it! I was entertained.
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arthur stead

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Reply with quote  #10 
I agree that it looks like real magic.  And, from the audience's perspective, that's all that counts.

Although personally, I wouldn't work with a gaffed table.  Much prefer my old-fashioned sleight of hand methods!

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Gareth

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Reply with quote  #11 
Just my tuppence worth. I think had he not done the phase where he clicked his fingers and all four suddenly returned back to the corners it might have been stronger. For me and probably some lay-men this ticked my mind over to technology rather than magic or incredible sleight of hand and therefore lessened the strength. All the other phases, including the petals at the end, felt as if maybe it was down to sleight of hand. Again Anthony V mentioned the "too perfect" theory and this phase was a perfect example.

But hey there wasn't a jaw off the floor in that auditorium and isn't that what we are supposed to do.

A lot of us use gaff's and gimmicks.

Interesting what he follows up with.

Gareth
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Michaelblue

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Reply with quote  #12 
I agree with Gareth, that was the part that made me think it was trick photography. I'm curious if he can carry that table around and do it close up. 
Either way, he did what he set out to do, and fool the judges
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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #13 
I don't know - some of those instant transitions really don't look magical to me - they look too much like crude stop-the-camera video editing (I know they aren't) - like the effects in "I Dream of Jeannie".   It doesn't look like magic - it looks like a trick.  I think Mike's comment is dead on - I would paraphrase it as "if the magician isn't involved, it's not magic".

Angel San Martin is another performer who uses a very special table, but his act is highly magical.  I think it is because his hands are always engaged with the props.  He creates the illusion that his actions are causing magical things to happen.

Thinking about this makes me wonder whether old-school hands-off classics like Hooker's Rising Cards would appear magical today, or just puzzling.

All that being said, Mr. Tsai got a standing ovation from the judges and the audience.  I certainly wish him lots of success.
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #14 
What if the entire thing was just a projection onto the pad from a projector? It may as well have been. That's a lot easier than building the table. Same effect.

Mike
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Chi Han

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Reply with quote  #15 
I've found the best way to enjoy magic is not to worry about how it was done. Either I figure it out and it's no longer magic, or I can't figure it out and I get frustrated.

Whether it's Criss Angel using twins for a vanishing, or David Blaine using pre-show, if I'm fooled I don't really mind. Now as I learn more methods, it becomes harder to enjoy magic, because too many times I can figure things out. That said here it doesn't work. Sure the table might have done 'something', but I still have no idea what it did. How could the table make the coins disappear? Some sort of black art? If so I can't easily conceive the mechanism. How did the petal transformation happen?

I don't know if it can be done live, but even if it had nothing to do with the table some people might say it did. Just like even if you do a really amazing card trick people will say you're using trick cards, I've had people accuse me of that even with a borrowed deck. If you search for a method you'll find one, but if even that method that you've 'found' you can't explain, I think it's enough to say that you've been fooled. And I for one have been fooled.

My stance on stooges, having seen some amazing things done with instant stooges , is that you'd better do it really right. Sure you can have great actors, but that's not enough to sell it. I think a great way to sell a stooge would be to have a confederate in the audience, picking out 5 people including your confederate via a ball toss, then while you're blindfolded and the 5 people have their backs to you, you instruct them to raise their hand when they feel like it. The audience watches in shock as they all raise their hand at the same time (spurred on of course by the confederate raising their hand and group dynamics causing them to follow). Sure if the audience found out the method, they would be disappointed, but isn't that all magic? Of course the danger of using stooges, as Richard Osterlind is found of saying, is that if you ever do get caught you instantly lose all credibility for everything. I've also seen bad stooging, examples where people just come on stage, and say a very specific sentence while the 'mentalist' barely disguises the method. That doesn't amuse me. To me stooging is like using any other gaff or gimmick, it's a tool, it had better be hidden correctly and properly presented, and I think it's something best left to very bold and very clever people who are willing to risk jt.
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Ben Morris-Rains

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Reply with quote  #16 
I first saw this and was completely blown away. This is how I've always wanted a matrix/shadow coins routine to look. Regardless of WHAT method, I think there is a lot of creativity here. I have to reference Arthur C. Clarke's (too many magicians only reference this law, the other two are equally though provoking) third law: Any advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. 


This seems like a blend of both classic methods and new methods, merging both magic and technology. This isn't something you are going to show your magic buddies at the next session and I don't think Will ever intended for that reaction. With this show, they have seen a ton of magic and the pre-judges have seen a shit ton more than the celebrity judges. You have to stand out to make it onto the next level. I believe Eric Jones tried out this season as well and I'm not sure if he made it to where Will did and Eric is fantastic. 

This was made for TV. A spectator sitting around him would grab at the coins and the table. Sleight of hand works in close-up situations because you can control it. You can ditch a coin if needed, palm a card off, etc. 

The only experience I could compare this to would be Armando Lucero's Coin Menagerie. I watched him do this at LVMI in Las Vegas. It seriously fried me so bad and I love matrix/shadow coin type of effects. Armando has made sure his routine doesn't appear in video because he knows that someone could slow the video down and watch it 1,000 times and eventually figure out the sleights and technique. 

Wills effect doesn't completely eliminate this as there are reveal videos at a slow frame rate exposing certain subtleties of this routine, which is a bummer. 

I'm with Chi Han and say just enjoy it. I think AGT has done a decent job at promoting magicians in a positive light vs. the stereotypical magician archetype that a lot of non-magicians generally think of. 

We will see if he has something more impressive for the second round. That will be hard to beat. 




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Reply with quote  #17 
I once had a client that wanted me to make a table with multiple black-art spring-pockets a la the "balloon to dove" tray, just on a smaller scale. This seemed to remind me of that table. If the table is made right, you can work with a live close-up audience but timing, spacing, and angles have to really be on point.

It was a really good act; I enjoyed it. I'm interested in what he'll do next.

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #18 
The idea of four coins disappearing from the corners of a square and appearing together at one corner as the magician waves hands a foot above the table is simply "too perfect." If this happened in a movie, the audience would think it was a special effect, not sleight of hand.

When people attribute my magic to the cards, I give them the deck at the end of the performance and say, "The magic is in the hands, not in the cards." 

In this case the magic IS in the table and not in the hands. Armando Lucero's magic is in the hands and not in the table. He doesn't need a special table. 

How tragic to think someone will say to him, "That's nice but can you do like that guy on AGT and make them all jump visibly to one corner without your hands coming near the table..."

When people would say to Eugene Burger, "Nice. But can you do what Chris Angel does?" He'd answer, "Chris Angel can't do what Chris Angel does...." 

Wait until you perform a great Matrix routine and they say, "Yeah but what about that guy on AGT." I'd be tempted to say, "You could do what he does. Just buy one of those tables." Of course I wouldn't do that, but it would be tempting.

Mike
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #19 
I wonder if now, when a magician sets down a close-up pad, people are going to think; "That must be one of those trick tables."
Yeah, I know it doesn't make any sense.
But it never has to.
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Ben Morris-Rains

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
...

In this case the magic IS in the table and not in the hands. Armando Lucero's magic is in the hands and not in the table. He doesn't need a special table. 


Right. My point is, his routine would not translate well to TV or YouTube because the sleight of hand would be evident at some point. 

Maybe will should have feigned some sleight of hand to throw people off entirely. 

I also think that magicians worry about TV/YouTube far too much. Majority of people have never seen close-up magic in person. It is an entirely different experience. 

In Robert-Houdin's time, did The Orange Tree make all other magicians magic irrelevant? I mean, for the era that had to be like witchcraft, yet here we are still shuffling and palming along. 


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Barrett S

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Reply with quote  #21 
Hello All,

This topic generated a lot of talk in other places as well.  

Turns out that today I received the latest issue of "Vanish."  

I have not read it yet, but this talented young man is the cover person.  I moved it to my Kindle and really can't wait to see what is said.

Personally, I am in total alignment with Mike Powers.  Mike has said a lot of interesting and logical (if that can even apply to magic, but Mike make it do so) things.  And others have presented the case in a different way.  

I don't know.  When I saw the act, I caught the flash immediately - on YouTube - first time.  Perhaps it was because I knew where to look, or, who knows.  But as others have said, if it was supposed to entertain, it did.

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #22 
Another thought: "Here watch these coins jump around. I'll be right back."\

Did people think that he caused the magic or that he was just there? I'm not sure. I'm going to see some friends tonight who likely will have seen AGT. I'm very curious as to their reaction. I won't "lead the witness" - promise. I'll report back if I get some honest lay person's reaction.

Mike
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Ben Morris-Rains

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
Another thought: "Here watch these coins jump around. I'll be right back."\

Did people think that he caused the magic or that he was just there? I'm not sure. I'm going to see some friends tonight who likely will have seen AGT. I'm very curious as to their reaction. I won't "lead the witness" - promise. I'll report back if I get some honest lay person's reaction.

Mike


All good points. Look forward to hearing about what they say. 

Makes me also think of Jay Sankey's method for a visible shadow coins routine with chinese coins where the coins all slowly crawl to one corner, visibly. This could also, in theory, be done without the magician "being there." Does the animation make the routine magical and in Will's case, the lack of any move's make it seem more like technology? 

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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #24 
I'm 100% with Mike on this. 

I remember reading with confusion an explanation of a routine in which the author suggested that the magician should go into the audience and sit in the volunteer's seat, and direct the volunteer (on stage) from there, as something "magical" happened.  My reaction was "well why is the magician even there?"
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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #25 
Watching the show I saw coins gathering together. When the last coin was supposed to go, they all wound up in their original corners.
THAT blew me away. He could have stopped there.
But if he did, would we be talking about him today? Maybe, but not to this extent.

He said that he wanted this to be a life changing moment for him.
So he went so over the top that everyone took notice.
The magic community is abuzz.
He's on the cover of Vanish magazine.

I just checked and no one's talking about me and I haven't received any communication by phone or email letting me know I"ll be on the next cover.

He set out what he wanted to do. He got people to stand up and take notice and he made himself into a household name.
Although I'm not sure how many households this name reaches because nobody mentioned the show or the act at work.
No one.
But, I'm pretty sure other show producers saw him. And I'm pretty sure he got the life change he was looking for.
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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #26 
Dan, you should know that my co-workers and I sit around and discuss you all the time.  The surveillance videos are particularly popular.

Your point is well-taken - Mr. Tsai got a standing o. from the AGT judges and audience.  That's not something I will ever achieve - kudos to him for finding a way to get there.
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Barrett S

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Reply with quote  #27 
A coda to my previous post.  I have read the article in Vanish.

I emphatically recommend this article.

I believe it will explain many things, show how this young man thinks, and there are one or two lines of the interview that really stand out.  One must intuit and infer, but regardless of my background (below), I have a change in opinion.

**SPOILER ALERT - Better to read the article than my dumb interpretation**

So.  After reading the article here is how I stand.  And by the way, I am not a performer, just a hobbyist.  But I know a lot of "stuff," and like to learn more.  I can't necessarily do everything, but I usually/may get something and move on... Odd approach but it works for me.

I think what what Will Tsai is doing is different.  I believe one had to come up with something and then follow through to get where he ended up.  And... boy I really don't want to ruin this for anyone, but I think Mr. Tsai has found a use of a now-common thing that use just has not been done.  My question is probably academic and is what qualifies as "magic?"   I don't know if there is an answer.  I do think it does something to the art.  And I mean something fairly large.  This would make a cool discussion on a Saturday Session maybe..  Remember, I know nothing vis-a-vis most of the population on this forum....

Thanks for reading and happy weekend.

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #28 
I appreciate EVILDAN's thoughts re: he's famous and got the standing O and we didn't. (I'm president and you're not!)

I ate my words when David Blaine's first special came out. I had seen his fairly lame chops on shows leading up to the special. Horrible pass, TILT etc. Then I loved the special.

Marco Tempest does some really cool stuff with technology but he presents it as technology, not magic. Maybe we need to withhold judgement until time goes by. This may be the "next thing" in magic i.e. super visual things done with high tech props. If all that matters is that it looks cool, this will succeed. But is it magic?

It's certainly a tricky thing to unpack since most Illusions are virtually "self working" although many require timing and practice etc. Will people be disappointed if and when they find out it's just a high tech table?? I thought it might be a HD TV screen like Marco T uses a lot. The first part uses real coins, or at least it sure looks like that. Later it looks like a video trick i.e. an HD screen laying flat with a program running to achieve the appearance of coins etc. But then there's the rose petals?? So I'd have to assume table.

There was a performer at 4F who did a cups and balls thing that was a mind blower. Unfortunately, the second time I saw it, his table screwed up and made it clear that there were holes and moving things to make the balls disappear and appear. I think what distinguishes his from AGT is that what the guy at 4F did seemed believable as magic. Whereas I don't get that feeling from the AGT performance. Of course, I'm a magician, and that may be the big difference. 

Looking forward to finding out what my lay friends think. We should all do that research. Let them talk and express their thoughts. I'm not going to pop the bubble of mystery. I'll just say "I don't know..." I'd bet money that the idea of a trick table comes up. We'll see......

Mike
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DJ

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
This may be the "next thing" in magic i.e. super visual things done with high tech props. If all that matters is that it looks cool, this will succeed. But is it magic?


This made me think of another performance which happened on AGT with a magician that used a big screen.  I don't mean to derail the thread from Will Tsai or his performance but I think it will be interesting to see if magic will begin to incorporate high tech as so many other things have.   




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Ben Morris-Rains

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Reply with quote  #30 
I'll say it again: Magic made for TV is going to be different than magic performed in real life. There are a lot of effects David Blaine did that can't be replicated in real life and mainly all of what Criss Angel ever did was TV magic. 

The one thing that is different with this I feel, is it is a insane version of a coin trick that magicians perform all the time. I think if this was an entirely different plot, there wouldn't have been as much discussion as to what is magic and what isn't. I CAN see how this MAY lead to more people asking "Well that one guy did it with no cover.. etc." Versus something on a Criss Angel special where he chops people in half in a park. Most people aren't going to ask you to do that. Most people..

I can see both sides of this argument. If you read the article in Vanish, Will calls himself a visualist, not a magician. Maybe that title is better and would help sum up what we are seeing.



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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #31 
Tomorrow I have a strolling gig. I'm taking a deck of cards, a coin board, Turbo Stick, and a small chop cup. I'm not worried.
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Ben Morris-Rains

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
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Tomorrow I have a strolling gig. I'm taking a deck of cards, a coin board, Turbo Stick, and a small chop cup. I'm not worried.


Nor should you be. 

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #33 
You should be worried if I show up with my horizontal iPad with four coins on it!! LOL!

I like what Marco Tempest is doing. Have you guys seen his TED talks? His performances have a magical feel, but the technical nature of the method is clear to the audience and not hidden. Watching Marco is an experience of art for sure. The concepts as well as the visuals blend together into an artistic experience. I like that.

Sorry to keep carping about AGT, but would it be OK for a singer on the show to run his/her voice through a computer system that so utterly changed everything as to make anyone who sang into it sound incredible? I know that many/most singers, especially in the studio, use enhancements. But if the computer completely substitutes another perfect voice etc, would the judges and audience give it kudos? The person would still have to emote, but the entire voice would be artificial. 

How about a guitarist with a Guitar Hero rig? It looks like you're an expert, but you don't even know anything. You just emote and move your fingers all over the neck. The audience thinks you're really playing, though... Does this guy beat out the real guitar players because of his "concept?"

I think these things are worth thinking about.

Mike
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tommyellison

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Reply with quote  #34 
[QUOTE/>

"How about a guitarist with a Guitar Hero rig? It looks like you're an expert, but you don't even know anything. You just emote and move your fingers all over the neck. The audience thinks you're really playing, though... Does this guy beat out the real guitar players because of his "concept?"

Hey Mike! I resemble that remark!

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Robin Dawes

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Reply with quote  #35 
Wow ... the Turbo Stick sure takes me back.  "I'll Start Again" was one of the first tricks I ever bought - I must have been about 10 years old.  I guess everything old is new again.  I like the transformation of random marks into the volunteer's name.  Anthony Lindan did something similar with business cards quite a few years ago - without the paddle move though.
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Jeremy Salow

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Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ

  





This...was...amazing. That is truly art beyond anything I've ever seen any magician do, and I (generally) don't like stage magic. This is the first time (other than the show that got me into magic) that I have ever felt a truly magical experience. Emotion, everything. I don't really have the words for how it made me feel.
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Salow


This...was...amazing. That is truly art beyond anything I've ever seen any magician do, and I (generally) don't like stage magic. This is the first time (other than the show that got me into magic) that I have ever felt a truly magical experience. Emotion, everything. I don't really have the words for how it made me feel.


I'm glad you shared that. It was beautiful.

Rudy

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Gareth

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Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
You should be worried if I show up with my horizontal iPad with four coins on it!! LOL!

I like what Marco Tempest is doing. Have you guys seen his TED talks? His performances have a magical feel, but the technical nature of the method is clear to the audience and not hidden. Watching Marco is an experience of art for sure. The concepts as well as the visuals blend together into an artistic experience. I like that.

Sorry to keep carping about AGT, but would it be OK for a singer on the show to run his/her voice through a computer system that so utterly changed everything as to make anyone who sang into it sound incredible? I know that many/most singers, especially in the studio, use enhancements. But if the computer completely substitutes another perfect voice etc, would the judges and audience give it kudos? The person would still have to emote, but the entire voice would be artificial. 

How about a guitarist with a Guitar Hero rig? It looks like you're an expert, but you don't even know anything. You just emote and move your fingers all over the neck. The audience thinks you're really playing, though... Does this guy beat out the real guitar players because of his "concept?"

I think these things are worth thinking about.

Mike


I agree Mike I was thinking if Marco Tempests TED talks whennI saw this initially. The technology is not hidden and yet he retains the magical feel.
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Barrett S

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Reply with quote  #39 
Little conspiracy stuff going on... how much fun is that?

Rudy's link no longer works.  In that link was a presentation.  However, it had that flash.  And now it does not work.

On YouTube, there is no version that flashes as of the time I, wasted searching.  Rather, there is a new shoot or it is the same one.  Same trick, all the same as everything.  Except, the flash is not there.

I must conclude then that the true answer is that this is real magic.  Really.  If you can get your stuff off 10 zillion servers, there is no other answer.

Additionally, I need something to do.

And wow once again, good call Mike.  I just watched Marco Tempest's talk.  THAT is how it might have gone... and dude can handle cards!  

What Mr. Tsai figured out is how to do that without the goggles.  (See "Vanish.")  But you have to infer.  Back to Mr. Tsai.  He's got some extra folds in his brain... no doubt.  

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EVILDAN

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Reply with quote  #40 
Yesterday, I was at a town festival for about 4 hours. Got there 2 hours ahead of performance time because of parking. I performed from 7-8pm. My wife performed from 8-9pm. Then we performed a fire show right before the fireworks from 9:30-9:45pm. People were calling out my name during times that I was performing. "Hey, EvilDan."

Not once did anyone mention Will Tsai's appearance on AGT.

With the 100's of channels available on TV, Netflix, and the fact that most people have their faces glued to their phones, it takes something big to draw the attention of the majority of the viewing audience. Super Bowl, World Cup, Oscars, Olympics, etc.

We took notice of Will because WE are magicians. But how many non-magicians watched and took notice, or even cared to look up from their phones long enough to watch the whole routine?
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Paul Hallas

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Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Dawes
Wow ... the Turbo Stick sure takes me back.  "I'll Start Again" was one of the first tricks I ever bought - I must have been about 10 years old.  I guess everything old is new again.  I like the transformation of random marks into the volunteer's name.  Anthony Lindan did something similar with business cards quite a few years ago - without the paddle move though.


The transformation of random marks into someone's name was suggested in the instructions Supreme Magic supplied with the paddle over 40 years ago. 

Funnily enough, I just re-introduced "I'll Start Again" back into my restaurant magic a few weeks ago. It was always a very commercial routine. 
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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #42 
I was hoping that my lay friends had seen AGT, but they hadn't. No data yet on layman views of what happened. I do think a lot of people will have no explanation i.e. trick table. If so, then I suppose it worked as solid magic.

There was a guy at 4F this year that I'm convinced used about five stooges. He did several effects using different people and I believe that in every case he used a stooge. Part of what drives that conclusion is that he asked me to stooge last year. The effects were so impossible that I had to believe it was the five stooges. To anyone who didn't draw this conclusion, this guy would be a rock star doing the most impossible magic ever.

What if he did that on AGT?? 

Mike
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JohnnyNewYork

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Reply with quote  #43 
Mike -- Your posts are always so interesting and really hit the core of the topic!  Your last post (above) reminds me of a quote in one of Harry Lorayne's books (paraphrasing):  "You can perform miracles using a stooge, but then there will always be at least ONE person in the audience who does NOT think you are as great as everyone else does."  I'm not condemning the use  of  a stooge in magic, but if it is the ONLY or PRIMARY way you create wonder, I'm with Harry on this one.  This rather long thread is quite interesting and touches on deeper issues; I've only recently caught up with it -- thanks to everyone above for great responses!  -- johnny
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