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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #1 
Expert Playing Card Company cards are amazing.  I got Classic Twins red/blue two pack as a gift.  I had never handled EPCC cards before.

Smoother linen it seems. A little slicker. Perhaps a little thinner than Bicycles.  A little stiffer. I like the elegant looking PIPS and court cards.  The smaller white border was noticable and appealing to me actually.

One thing I really noticed was how smooth the edges were.  They faro so easily!  Unlike my "ELITE" maiden back marked cards, which to me feel the same as the $1.33 per deck Bicycles I get from Sam's club.

Do the Superiors feel teh same I wonder? They are about $3.88 per deck on penguin.

What's the best deal I can get on a brick of EPCC cards?
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #2 
I don't know if it is my imagination or not but the cards seem more durable, especially the edges.  They don't seem to fry as easily and are holding up to a lot of faros.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #3 
I have tried some of the cards put out through EPCC.  All have been very good.  Bear in mind that EPCC is simply the marketer, they don't print any cards.  What they do is team up with card manufacturers to print their designs.  The recent recreations of Jerry's Nuggets were an EPCC effort and printed by The United States Playing Card Company.

Bill Kalush is the Executive Director of The Conjuring Arts Research Center and also heads up EPCC.  He is an outstanding cardworker.  I was fortunate to meet him and have him perform some effects for me one-on-one.

I happen to really like the Superiors.  They do everything I need them to do.  I also am a fan of thin borders.  I think they look better when fanned.

I know that you are a fan of Asi Wind, Jennifer so you'll appreciate the little nugget in this ad copy.

Our insanely popular Superior Classic Bricks are back and better than ever. We have updated the red color a little and streamlined the tuck (at the suggestion of Asi Wind) to make it look even more classic.

Superior Brand is a new series of cards that will encompass a large range of variations. There will be different finishes, and colors of the same back design, different back designs, gaffed decks and cards, and much more. This iteration is focused on a classic design and feel. The cards are priced inexpensively and feature all the qualities that most card handlers look for in their day to day card work.

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #4 
I think the Superiors were on sale at one point for $36 for 12 decks delivered. I bought 2 bricks.

I believe the cards are made in Taiwan as are many of the cards offered by Conjuring Arts, I believe.

The prices on many of the "boutique" decks these days are nuts. I think the cards probably cost close to $1.00/deck for, say, 1000 decks. Then they sell for $14.95 in a cool looking box. Wow!

I'm sticking with Bicycle 808s since I have a lifetime supply in my basement.

M
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
I think the Superiors were on sale at one point for $36 for 12 decks delivered. I bought 2 bricks.

I believe the cards are made in Taiwan as are many of the cards offered by Conjuring Arts, I believe.

The prices on many of the "boutique" decks these days are nuts. I think the cards probably cost close to $1.00/deck for, say, 1000 decks. Then they sell for $14.95 in a cool looking box. Wow!

I'm sticking with Bicycle 808s since I have a lifetime supply in my basement.

M


Regards the pricing, I agree Mike.  Then there are the "limited editions" that sell out and they then are found online advertised at $50.00 a deck or more.  Ridiculous.  But there is a market for them, so more power to them I guess.
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Matt G

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Reply with quote  #6 
Placebo is a hell of a drug.

RayJ : what did you mean by "Bear in mind that EPCC is simply the marketer, they don't print any cards.  What they do is team up with card manufacturers to print their designs" ? My understanding based on what I've read on various Cardistry forums was that they have their factory in Taiwan, unlike USPCC in America?
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Dave Campbell

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Reply with quote  #7 
I dunno…. I'm fine with the cards from Costco...
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Daniel Young

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Reply with quote  #8 
We used to stock a variety of EPCC, they used to have a million different stocks and finishes. So you never really knew what you were getting. Then they started producing cards that were more similar to bikes, which I personally prefer.

Regarding the Superiors, they gave it a slightly more faded colour on the backs than the earlier edition and took away the shiny stuff on the box, and made that look faded too. Then you have people like me who bought a brick of their marked cards, that no longer are matching their regular decks. Would anyone notice if I change, probably not. But for me they went from excellent to looking washed out. Superiors, when new, are buttery smooth to handle, but they start clumping up quickly I found.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt G
Placebo is a hell of a drug.

RayJ : what did you mean by "Bear in mind that EPCC is simply the marketer, they don't print any cards.  What they do is team up with card manufacturers to print their designs" ? My understanding based on what I've read on various Cardistry forums was that they have their factory in Taiwan, unlike USPCC in America?


They contract with existing printers to print their cards.  I don't think they own any factories.

Edit:  This is similar to Theory11 and Ellusionist, neither of which own any of the manufacturing, they are simply the "brand".
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Young
We used to stock a variety of EPCC, they used to have a million different stocks and finishes. So you never really knew what you were getting. Then they started producing cards that were more similar to bikes, which I personally prefer.

Regarding the Superiors, they gave it a slightly more faded colour on the backs than the earlier edition and took away the shiny stuff on the box, and made that look faded too. Then you have people like me who bought a brick of their marked cards, that no longer are matching their regular decks. Would anyone notice if I change, probably not. But for me they went from excellent to looking washed out. Superiors, when new, are buttery smooth to handle, but they start clumping up quickly I found.


It is true that they changed the colors.  It is also true for USPCC on Bicycles.  Then there was the time in which the QC was not the greatest at USPCC.  If I have time, I'll lay out "versions" of both red and blue that I've collected over the last 50 years.  Some of the blue are almost teal and some of the red are almost pink.  And trust me, they aren't faded, not the slightest.

I have a fun experiment for you to do sometime with your audience.  Do an effect and change the color of the deck and don't point it out.  Just keep going like nothing happened and see if anyone even notices.
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Daniel Young

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Reply with quote  #11 
Its true regarding USPCC, their quality has decreased over the years for sure. I find if you get the ones in the proper box, not the ones with advertising on them, then the quality tend to be better. And yes, in terms of changing colours, that would 99.5% of the time go completely unnoticed, but I like the original red to the slightly faded ones. I would rarely switch between regular and marked cards in performance anyway.

When I worked in the shop we found that fewer people bought them after the change. One guy in particular who was always coming in to buy them, but stopped after the change.
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Matt G

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Reply with quote  #12 
RayJ, I don't want to argue with you over something I'm not 100% sure about (perhaps EndersGame can chime in here), but my understanding is that EPCC is a manufacturer, like Cartamundi or USPCC. I know that that Theory11 decks are printed by US Playing Card Company (who also prints Bees, Bikes, Tally-Hos, Aviators, and a ton of other popular cards), while Ellusionist now goes with Cartamundi (who also prints Copags and their new B9 Linen Finish seems to be all the rage in cardistry at the moment). I was under the impression that Expert Playing Card Company (who prints cards like Jerry's Nuggets, Superiors, and Asi's Chameleons) is more of a "competitor" to USPCC / Cartamundi than a T11 / Ellusionist who competes with all the other "luxury brands" of playing cards. I say this because I see many kickstarter campaigns advertising that they are going with EPCC, USPCC, or Cartamundi [or MPC or a few other manufacturers].

Really, all I was trying to say is that there are infinitely many ways to skin a cat, but there are only so many variables you can control when manufacturing playing cards. Christian Schenk (the creator of Phoenix Playing Cards) goes into some of them here: http://release-the-power.com/ . I'll admit, every deck of Phoenixes I've ever bought have felt great, fanned great, avoided clumping for a while, Faro perfect the way I want them to out of the box, and are a lot more consistent than a standard brick of Costco bikes (and he talks about the "QC levels" at USPCC in one of his videos).

Paul Gertner says he uses standard Costco bicycle bricks for his Unshuffled routine, which requires fast perfect Faros. Jason England teaches tabled Faros using USPCC cards -- just advises to use Traditionally Cut if you can. Richard Turner, who probably has the best "feel" for playing cards out of anybody in the world, has his own line of Gold Standard Bicycle playing cards. 
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #13 

How do I get a good deck of Bikes which actually have a nice edge on them faro easy?  I even this "elite" maiden back marked cards from Penguin feel as rough as the Sam's club ones.  They fray on me easy as well because the are so uneven on edges.. just after a few faros.  Then it is totally impossible to faro with them.

Do some people sand the edges with fine sand paper to make them smoother to faro more easily?

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chris w

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferG

Do some people sand the edges with fine sand paper to make them smoother to faro more easily?



Yes, I believe Gracie Morgan advocates something like that. I first encountered the idea in Alex Elmsley's books. It can help with the odd deck, but I have not generally found it necessary.
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Dave Campbell

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Reply with quote  #15 
You can buff the edges/corners lightly with an emory board -- there may be a video on here somewhere I think it's by Gracie Morgan talking about that.

I also find that by changing from going face down to face up helps.

Your mileage may vary, I'm not a faro master.

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Matt G

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Reply with quote  #16 
I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but if your edges get frayed after just a few Faros, I think the problem is with your faro technique and not the cards. Most likely, you're applying too much pressure and jamming the cards together, instead of letting them weave on their own. Paul Gertner's Unshuffling the Faro Shuffle DVD goes into how to perform his signature effect "Unshuffled" and teaches you what to do with a new deck of standard Bikes. Mike Close does something similar when talking about the preparation in his e-book on the Faro Shuffle. As mentioned previously Gracie Morgan talks about her technique "buffing" the deck using a technique with a special nail buffer. But honestly once you've got the technique down, you will be able to take just about any standard deck of cards and Faro them in the right direction (face up or face down depending on how they're cut) 10/10 times.

(But if you haven't tried with Aviators, I'd highly recommend giving them a whirl. They're very resilient for learning. Not great for other sleights, but may really help while you're getting the technique down)


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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferG

How do I get a good deck of Bikes which actually have a nice edge on them faro easy?  I even this "elite" maiden back marked cards from Penguin feel as rough as the Sam's club ones.  They fray on me easy as well because the are so uneven on edges.. just after a few faros.  Then it is totally impossible to faro with them.

Do some people sand the edges with fine sand paper to make them smoother to faro more easily?



No sandpaper!  Even very fine will do more damage than help.  I will dig up the method that Steven Youell graciously provided to the community.  He recommended using a specific type of nail buffer.

Edit:  Here is the thread in which the video is contained.

https://www.themagiciansforum.com/post/card-treatments-buffing-fabric-softener-10058278?highlight=buffing
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt G
RayJ, I don't want to argue with you over something I'm not 100% sure about (perhaps EndersGame can chime in here), but my understanding is that EPCC is a manufacturer, like Cartamundi or USPCC. I know that that Theory11 decks are printed by US Playing Card Company (who also prints Bees, Bikes, Tally-Hos, Aviators, and a ton of other popular cards), while Ellusionist now goes with Cartamundi (who also prints Copags and their new B9 Linen Finish seems to be all the rage in cardistry at the moment). I was under the impression that Expert Playing Card Company (who prints cards like Jerry's Nuggets, Superiors, and Asi's Chameleons) is more of a "competitor" to USPCC / Cartamundi than a T11 / Ellusionist who competes with all the other "luxury brands" of playing cards. I say this because I see many kickstarter campaigns advertising that they are going with EPCC, USPCC, or Cartamundi [or MPC or a few other manufacturers].

Really, all I was trying to say is that there are infinitely many ways to skin a cat, but there are only so many variables you can control when manufacturing playing cards. Christian Schenk (the creator of Phoenix Playing Cards) goes into some of them here: http://release-the-power.com/ . I'll admit, every deck of Phoenixes I've ever bought have felt great, fanned great, avoided clumping for a while, Faro perfect the way I want them to out of the box, and are a lot more consistent than a standard brick of Costco bikes (and he talks about the "QC levels" at USPCC in one of his videos).

Paul Gertner says he uses standard Costco bicycle bricks for his Unshuffled routine, which requires fast perfect Faros. Jason England teaches tabled Faros using USPCC cards -- just advises to use Traditionally Cut if you can. Richard Turner, who probably has the best "feel" for playing cards out of anybody in the world, has his own line of Gold Standard Bicycle playing cards. 


I'm not wanting to argue either.  I'm just stating facts and what I think is correct.  The Nuggets were printed by USPCC and are promoted by EPCC.  Some of the new Nuggets were made in Ohio, some were made overseas, I believe in Taiwan.  If it turns out that EPCC actually owns a plant somewhere I'll be happy to add that to my knowledge base, but I don't think they do.

E
dit:  Also, Cartamundi purchased USPCC.  They were the latest in a series of companies that had bought and/or sold the company.  Since they also are in the business, let's hope this is the last.

Another Edit:  Found the following information.  If I read it right, it sounds as though EPCC might have some of its cards printed by Legends Playing Card Company.

The #852 deck

When Legends released its "Legends #852" deck of playing cards, it was an instant success. The initial print run of over 10,000 sold out in a matter of days, with collectors, magicians, and poker players all clamouring to get a copy. It featured artwork by Mark Stutzman, well-known for his successful work with David Blaine’s posters and decks of cards, and was produced in collaboration with Bill Kalush, from Expert Playing Card Company. Here's Lawrence's own words about some of the factors that contributed to the success of this deck, and how it came about: "Growing up in Asia allowed me to source the Legends #852 factory in Taiwan and work with them extensively before printing the first Legends #852 run. Later down the road I shared the factory information with Bill Kalush, who started Expert Playing Card Company. Blaine and Stutzman helped with the design / artwork side of the first deck."

Quoted from:  https://unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9889
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TheAmazingStanley

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Reply with quote  #19 
Superiors are beautiful. The back artwork is ornate and the thin border is just the right accent. They have a stiffer more plasticy feel, which isn’t bad or good, it’s just different than the more pliable Bicycle, theory 11, COPAG, Aristocrat, etc cards. They “behave” well.
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JenniferG

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt G
I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but if your edges get frayed after just a few Faros, I think the problem is with your faro technique and not the cards. Most likely, you're applying too much pressure and jamming the cards together, instead of letting them weave on their own.


Is it me though? I have done faro after faro after faro with this set of new old stock Superior cards (Made in Taiwan) and it's holding up like new.  I get a perfect faro virtually every time.  Contrast with a brand new deck of Sam's Club Biycle Rider Back I pulled out of box and took me like 5 minutes to get a single faro because edges are so rough.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferG


Is it me though? I have done faro after faro after faro with this set of new old stock Superior cards (Made in Taiwan) and it's holding up like new.  I get a perfect faro virtually every time.  Contrast with a brand new deck of Sam's Club Biycle Rider Back I pulled out of box and took me like 5 minutes to get a single faro because edges are so rough.


There are no absolutes when it comes to cards.  Just when someone says one deck is the holy grail, you get a bad batch of them and suddenly they are junk.  I had this happen with some Monarchs.  I bought some at a local Barnes & Noble book store and they were
both smeared and out of register.  Not at all like the ones I had purchased previously, which were near perfect.

Quality control is what it is.  The more you pay for a pack, the more likely you will be pleased with it.  That isn't always the case, but generally it holds true.  Smaller batches of cards (i.e. 10,000 or less) are often printed on "sheet fed" presses rather than the high volume "web presses" (think newspaper printing).  This allows for (potentially) greater opportunity for quality control.  Then there is the simple fact that cutting blades eventually dull and the first cards cut will always be the smoothest.  

There is also a difference in how various plants cut their cards.  We've discussed the modern vs. traditional cut, but there is also another factor.  Some factories have developed proprietary methods of achieving "glass smooth edges".  See the photo of Bicycle on the left and Legends on the right.  The difference is remarkable.

Bicycles Vs. Legends

This article from Endersgame contains some great details about the manufacturing of cards.

https://playingcarddecks.com/blogs/all-in/how-to-uspcc-playing-cards
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Matt G

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Reply with quote  #22 
Only thing I can add is that superiors are traditionally cut, so they "face down" Faro nicely (meaning they will work better for tabled faros). Many Bicycle cards are not, so they "face up" out of the box and may need a bit of work to "face down" with zero effort. You can determine the direction by beveling the cards and running your finger along the edge; typically, beveling in one direction will be super smooth, and the other way will be pretty rough (if you buff the deck like how Gracie Morgan suggests, then both directions will feel super smooth!).

But I promise, once you've got the knack down, you'll be able to faro any (new, non-plastic) deck of cards in one direction (depending on how it's cut) every time, and with a bit of prepping, both directions every time. I say this with confidence because I've seen your skill with cards and how dedicated you are to practice. A few months ago before spending 2+ hours a day every day in quarantine practicing faro shuffling, I was having the exact same problem -- ruining deck after deck of Costco bikes, wondering how the heck it's possible to take a new deck of bikes and faro them to perform a routine like Paul Gertner's Unshuffled, searching far and wide to try finding the perfect deck and perfect deck preparation techniques... Then I got some a deck of Aviators as per a recommendation from some random YouTube video, and practiced with that one deck for all of April & May. Tried again with the Bikes I was struggling with earlier, and much to my surprise, they were working perfectly too. 

-------

@RayJ : Maybe I just don't fully understand what I'm reading. What does "printed by" mean? My (most likely incorrect) understanding is that the printer is the manufacturer. Portfolio52.com for example has a list of "printers" and EPCC is one of the more common ones. Again, the only reason I say this is because of the kickstarter campaigns I've followed and stuff I see on /r/playingcards or /r/cardistry. On these campaigns, they typically advertise that they are printed by USPCC, EPCC, or Cartamundi (who as you said now owns USPCC, although allows them to continue to operate as they did before it seems? https://playingcarddecks.com/blogs/all-in/the-cartamundi-brand-uspccs-competition-and-now-their-new-owner). Thirdway Industries for example is huge in the cardistry community, and their kickstarter campaigns always used to say "printed by Expert Playing Card Company" (for example https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thirdwayind/dedalo-playing-cards). I'll avoid commenting more on it because I don't know this area particularly well, I just buy cards that are well-reviewed by magicians and cardists and enjoy having a cool collection of cards, EndersGame probably has a lot more information on the subject. 
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #23 
In many printed references it seems that Legends and Expert are linked.  So I am assuming that Legends is the manufacturer and that they in turn make "some" cards for EPCC and that EPCC also has USPCC make some of their cards.
It really doesn't matter in the end.  I was just giving the information that I had and that which I could dredge up.

There is no doubt it can be confusing.  
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ
In many printed references it seems that Legends and Expert are linked.  So I am assuming that Legends is the manufacturer and that they in turn make "some" cards for EPCC and that EPCC also has USPCC make some of their cards.
It really doesn't matter in the end.  I was just giving the information that I had and that which I could dredge up.

There is no doubt it can be confusing.  


Edit:  I used to work for a global company that private labeled material for a number of other manufacturers.  In some instances we were prohibited legally from announcing the fact. 
With cards, that doesn't seem to be the case.  Phoenix is clear about the fact that USPCC makes their cards, etc.
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TheAmazingStanley

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Reply with quote  #25 
I have a deck of Chameleons. Just gorgeous and that same distinctive feel and smooth edges as the Superiors. It will take more than smooth edges for me to pull off a faro. 😑
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Eddie H.

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Reply with quote  #26 
I believe Lawrence Sullivan is Legends and Bill Kalush is EPCC. They use the same printer in Taiwan, but neither is a "manufacturer". They are separate companies, but are good friends and also collaborators (Exquisite deck).

EPCC starting printing with USPCC (Skull and Bones deck), but had a falling out of sorts and went with the same printer as Legends. EPCC also uses a Chinese printer for some stocks (JN) an example is David Blaine's Stoic's, and recently used USPCC for the modern feel JNuggs.

Conjuring Arts, which is the parent organization of Expert Playing Card Company, usually has a sale around Christmas where the brick price for Superiors is ~$40 and includes a sturdy magnetic folding brick box, which is a good deal, I think.

Hope that helps,

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie H.
I believe Lawrence Sullivan is Legends and Bill Kalush is EPCC. They use the same printer in Taiwan, but neither is a "manufacturer". They are separate companies, but are good friends and also collaborators (Exquisite deck).

EPCC starting printing with USPCC (Skull and Bones deck), but had a falling out of sorts and went with the same printer as Legends. EPCC also uses a Chinese printer for some stocks (JN) an example is David Blaine's Stoic's, and recently used USPCC for the modern feel JNuggs.

Conjuring Arts, which is the parent organization of Expert Playing Card Company, usually has a sale around Christmas where the brick price for Superiors is ~$40 and includes a sturdy magnetic folding brick box, which is a good deal, I think.

Hope that helps,



Eddie, thanks for that.  I'm sure you are correct in the way you describe the situation.  It is like the bicycle industry.  Many of the top names in the industry all come out of the same plant or plants in China and/or Taiwan.  They simply produce bicycles to the brands specifications, nothing more, nothing less.

So this "unnamed" printer makes cards for Legends, Expert, and probably others, all the while remaining anonymous.
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EndersGame

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Reply with quote  #28 
The terms are a little confusing, and the lines between brand, publisher, producer, printer, and manufacturer are sometimes blurred.  Occasionally these words are used interchangeably, so it's not always cut-and-dried.

What Eddie H shared is pretty much accurate.  Both EPCC and LPCC consider themselves to be playing card producers or printers, since producing playing cards for others is their business.   That makes them quite different from companies like Ellusionist or Theory11, which just hands over the digital artwork to USPCC to take care of.  EPCC/LPCC is on the ground getting themselves dirty with the printing, and making decisions about aspects of that process.  

Ray is correct that EPCC/LPCC don't actually own their factory, unlike USPCC.  Even so, most decks they produce will state "Printed by EPCC/LPCC", so they consider themselves the printer.  EPCC/LPCC will source an actual factory to do the actual printing, but it's usually the same factory, and they are closely involved with the actual production, and make decisions for them about parts of the process, sourcing supplies, etc.  So as such it's not incorrect to refer to them as the printer or manufacturer in a loose sense, as Matt suggests; they often describe themselves as such for this reason.

The recent Jerry's Nugget reprints organized by EPCC is an exception to the rule, and not the norm.  This was the result of a collaboration with USPCC, since they needed permission from USPCC to reprint them.  So they got USPCC to print some of the decks (modern finish), while EPCC printed the other decks (vintage finish).  But the usual way of things is that EPCC organizes their own printing, and doesn't outsource it to USPCC, because they aren't a "brand" like Ellusionist or Theory11 that doesn't get involved with the printing side of things.  Unlike those two companies, which leave the printing up to USPCC, EPCC is very much hands on with the printing side of things.

EPCC and LPCC are very closely connected, with Bill Kalush and Lawrence Sullivan at their  helm respectively.  For example, LPCC's website says this: "When you print with LPCC you receive expert guidance from our team, as well as the Expert Playing Card Company, whom we colloborate with regularly."  While separate companies, their consider themselves close partners and often work together.  They use different names for the finishes/stocks they use, but it's exactly the same product, i.e. LPCC's Diamond finish = EPCC's Master finish.

The main factory they both use is in Taiwan, although they also use a factory in China for some of their decks. Their Chinese printed decks tend to be of lower quality, and handle significantly different, so be sure to check if a deck is printed in Taiwan.  But the China printed decks are also described differently (JN Finish), whereas the more common finishes they both use (Diamond/Master finish and Classic finish) are nearly always printed in Taiwan, and you can assume similar handling and quality for those.

The two main finishes they use for their Taiwan printed decks are quite different.  The Classic finish is somewhat similar to Bicycle deck, and is the type of stock described in this thread.  It's more durable, however, and will last a lot longer.  But it does handle slightly differently, and will tend not to spread/fan as smoothly as a USPCC produced deck in the long haul, and is more suitable for doing packet cuts.  All LPCC/EPCC's Taiwan produced decks use their "Diamond Cut", which is why the edges are much smoother than USPCC decks, and they faro beautifully and consistently.

The Diamond finish (LPCC) and Master finish (EPCC) decks (different terms, but identical stock and embossing) feel and handle quite differently from the Classic finish decks.  The embossing is much less noticeable, and the cards feel much smoother.  They are also much more snappy and firm than a USPCC deck, and the difference will be even more obvious.  Whether you like this will be largely a matter of pure personal preference.  Again, they are also super durable.

The recent reprint of the Jerry's Nugget decks by EPCC used their China factory, and the JN Finish used for this has the smooth feel of decks with the Diamond/Master finish, but the cards will clump together much more quickly, and won't fan/spread smoothly for nearly as long.  But EPCC/LPCC cards with their Classic finish and their Master/Diamond finish are typically excellent, and I personally like them a lot.  Cardists tend not to like them as much since they are better for doing packet cuts rather than flourishes like fans and spreads, but for doing card magic I find them very good, and the clean cut makes them very good for sleights like double lifts.

Lawrence Sullivan from LPCC has a background as a professional magician, so he knows what magicians look for in a deck of playing cards.  Wanting reliable quality was a big factor that got him started with his own playing card company.

I hope this additional information helps - feel free to ask further questions.   I've written a couple of articles about this which may also be helpful to consult in case you're interested to learn more, so I'd suggest reading those first.  Especially the second and third ones will give some helpful info about LPCC/EPCC produced decks.

Factors That Affect the Handling of a Deck - Bicycle decks
Factors That Affect the Handling of a Deck - EPCC/LPCC decks
Playing Card Manufacturer: Legends & Expert Playing Card Companies (LPCC/EPCC)
Playing Card Manufacturer: United States Playing Card Company (USPCC)

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