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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #1 
This is a pretty simple thread & the question I have for you is...What routine or sleight have you been working on for YEARS, but still haven't mastered it or nailed it down?
This is a routine or sleight that you can't do yet, but you've put in the practice time and yet, it illudes you.
I've been practicing Martin Nash's Any Which Way You Want It from one of  Nash's vhs tapes. Some of the highlights of Nash's deal are ( from the spectators  point of view anyway );
Aces are put into the center of the deck-
The deck is shuffled and cut-
You then ask the spectator to choose a suit-
Then you ask the spectator " how many players in the game..between 2 & 8, lets say he says 4 and he choose's a club for the suit-
Then the Magician deals 4 cards, and the forth card is an ace of clubs. The same is done with the other 2 aces, but on the last ace, the spectator is asked to cut the deck, they can cut anywhere, but the magi still deals the cards to find that last ace. Also, Nash's patter makes this routine work. It just sounds good, you know?
I have been more into mentalism as of lately but I still practice this. I have been working on it since 2001 ( somewhere around that time ).
What about you? What have you been practicing for years and yet haven't been able to get it down?
MP

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #2 
My diagonal palm shift still sucks. My pass is not invisible.

M
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Stevie Ray

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Reply with quote  #3 
I have been working on Guy Hollingworth's false riffle shuffle--from Drawing Room Deceptions-- as the lead in to a false shuffling and cutting sequence.

Though I've worked on it at the beginning of every practice session for some years, it is still not at 100%. Just as is recommended with the classic force, I began using it in front of audiences where no false shuffle was required. I've just started using the sequence in performance this year. I conjured up a little routine called The Rules of Poker where I reveal the NDO after running through the sequence a couple of times. I have "outs" in the event a couple of cards have slipped out of order.

I would also say that culling is always a challenge and I always make sure to include it in performance. As a jazz musician once told me, "You get better on stage." I also used this discipline with the top change. You need to get the nerves out of the move. Timing it with an attentive, entertained crowd is the best way I know how.

I'm not suggesting one should rush a sketchy move to the stage, but sometimes a rush of adrenaline can save a few hours in front of the mirror. 
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Tom G

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Reply with quote  #4 
My pass is like a billboard, and the bottom deal only works with a 2 card stack...
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #5 
Welcome back, Rick! 

My Top Change remains iffy at best despite years, even decades of attempts at consistency. I am apparently unable to coordinate my hands without looking, and usually end up jamming the card to be changed against my left thumb. Sigh. Still working on it. Who knows, it might eventually come.

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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
My diagonal palm shift still sucks. My pass is not invisible.

M


I gave up trying to make my [classic] pass invisible. Instead I aim for swift and silent. Those who are able to successfully execute the pass while being burned have my respect, but I just don't think that's the goal. At least it isn't for me.

Av 
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson
Welcome back, Rick! 

My Top Change remains iffy at best despite years, even decades of attempts at consistency. I am apparently unable to coordinate my hands without looking, and usually end up jamming the card to be changed against my left thumb. Sigh. Still working on it. Who knows, it might eventually come.

Av  


If you haven't, I suggest you look at some of Marlo's variations of the Top Change. In some of his, the action is different from the traditional.

Another good one is in Earl Nelson's Variations, particularly if you are working on your feet.
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Paco Nagata

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Reply with quote  #8 
Second Deal.
I've given it up many times.
The last one was... Yesterday? Maybe.
In fact I hardly need it, but when I REALLY need to use this sleight I have to "Necktie the Deck."
It's not so clear but works.

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Stevie Ray

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Reply with quote  #9 
“My Top Change remains iffy at best despite years, even decades of attempts at consistency.”

Anthony, When I got my first strolling gig—Dave & Buster’s, circa 1997–I put together a multi-phased card routine based on David Williamson’s 51 cards to pocket.

I laced the phases with sleights I was good at… But more importantly, I added three moves I wanted to conquer. The classic force, the pass and the top change.

A force was not required, I just used real life spectators to practice my timing.

I always work standing up and I don’t need a table. Since there always was a table, I used the end tap pass as described in Marlo Without Tears. The larger motion covers the smaller motion and that alone gave me enough confidence to pull off the move.

It also gave a clear reason for my hands to come together momentarily. That alone, seems so suspicious to me. Squaring and tapping allayed any concern the spectator might have that there’s funny business going on.

That same book has great advice on the top change…

Ultimately, it was David Williamson who got me over the hump on that nervous-making move.

I learned one not only has to coordinate hands but also the shoulders, the eyes, the mouth, a question and a laugh.

I use them all after the third ambitious revelation.

With the deck in the left-hand and the selection in the right, face to the audience, about shoulder width apart, I make a natural circular gesture with each hand as I ask, “Do you guys like this so far?”

I try to make eye contact with this many spectators as possible while nodding my head yes. This often turns into an applause cue but without fail, they at least acknowledge they are enjoying the moment.

“Good… Because it’s all I’ve got.“

In 20 some years this has never failed to get a laugh.

When they laugh, I shrug and smirk as if to imply that I’m sorry.

That’s the precise moment when I do the top change.

I don’t think my technique is all that good. I wouldn’t know, really… I haven’t looked at it in 20 years… I’m looking at my spectators! And they’re looking at my face and my shoulders… Anywhere but my hands. I’ve never been busted.

I’ll be my listing my dear old friend, Marlo Without Tears, for sale today. It is a brilliant and gentle examination of some of Marlo’s best ideas.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #10 
Thanks, guys, for the great advice. Marlo Without Tears has been on my wish list for awhile now... maybe it's time to pull the trigger? Ray, any specific Marlo references you recommend? I'd really LOVE to have a good, consistent Top Change in my quiver; so much magic possible with it!

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StevePR104

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
My diagonal palm shift still sucks. My pass is not invisible.

M


Bull.  [biggrin]
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #12 

    Which is why during all the close-up card magic I know/perform/write about I don't do or need a pass or a diagonal palm shift.
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Alan Smithee

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lorayne

    Which is why during all the close-up card magic I know/perform/write about I don't do or need a pass or a diagonal palm shift.


Any thoughts on the top change?

Or is it the same answer.

As matter of interest to me and no one else, I don't do a pass, diagonal palm shift, top change, or (wait for it) jog shuffle.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #14 

      I used to do an effect that required a top change. I rarely use it now. I did print a couple of ways of doing a top change - can't think of where...too much stuff, all blending in my mind!

     But an overhand injog shuffle...I sure do use that. Written many, many, times - that covers a multitude of sins! Quite honestly can't see how anyone can do fair to good to great card stuff without doing an overhand in jog shuffle. I also use my Status Quo shuffle a lot - when I need to shuffle keeping one specific card on top.
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Stevie Ray

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Reply with quote  #15 
I would add that Harry’s Ultra Move is superior to any two-handed top-change.

i’ve said it here before… There needs to be a good reason for both hands to meet at the deck… When this particular action is unmotivated, it looks sneaky.

A proper top change requires significant misdirection, timing, laughter, eye contact and pre-conditioning

Harry’s Ultra Move, requires a couple hours of practice within the context of an effect. I will add that it works beautifully as described in print… The Magician generously giving the spectator a fair glimpse before getting fried.

But… it can also be done as a casual gesture where the peak the spectator gets is seemingly unintentional. Mix either of these displays with a bit of time misdirection and people might start decorating their houses with colored lights and a tree to celebrate your birthday too.
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Harry Lorayne

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Reply with quote  #16 

     My Ultra Move came about partly because I wanted a better/safer way for showing the top card and changing it at the same time. Thanks for mentioning it, Steve - males e feel good to know that some are reading (learning) the "good stuff".
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
As matter of interest to me and no one else, I don't do a... jog shuffle.


Yeah, but IIRC, you do use an overhand lift shuffle, right? Frankly, I prefer the lift shuffle to the jog shuffle myself, although I use both depending on the situation. Or my mood. Or both. Never been certain why the lift shuffle isn't more popular. It's simple enough to execute, and can be used for single card and even top or bottom stock  controls. A versatile and underused sleight if you ask me. Not that anyone did. 

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Alan Smithee

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson


Yeah, but IIRC, you do use an overhand lift shuffle, right? Frankly, I prefer the lift shuffle to the jog shuffle myself, although I use both depending on the situation. Or my mood. Or both. Never been certain why the lift shuffle isn't more popular. It's simple enough to execute, and can be used for single card and even top or bottom stock  controls. A versatile and underused sleight if you ask me. Not that anyone did. 

Av


Indeed I do. And I think I've posted the following somewhere hereabouts.

It is a mystery to me, but then lots of things are. It certainly is well hidden, too, and if I hadn’t chosen to follow the actual “Royal Road,” from chapter one onwards, I would have discovered it eventually.

But as it happens, I did start to follow the “Road” and because I struggled with the jog shuffle (chapter one), I experimented and came up with the Lift Shuffle. I developed all sorts of variations, some of which I've seen in print since I invented it, but none with earlier pedigree.

After I'd invented the shuffle, and before I found it in “Royal Road,” I came across it in an issue of “The Gen.” It was an excerpt from “Cy Endfield’s Entertaining Card Magic,” Part One, written by Lewis Ganson and published by Harry Stanley. Not Supreme Magic, Mister Giobbi I hasten to add. 

And while I'm here, Endfield was American, not South African.

Whether the trilogy had actually appeared in book form then, I can’t recall. It was either a taster of things to come or a taster to show what we were missing.

 incidentally, Anthony,,,,,, "IIRC"?????

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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Smithee
incidentally, Anthony,,,,,, "IIRC"?????


Hey, I'm a 21st century man, man. Google it! [biggrin]

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson
Thanks, guys, for the great advice. Marlo Without Tears has been on my wish list for awhile now... maybe it's time to pull the trigger? Ray, any specific Marlo references you recommend? I'd really LOVE to have a good, consistent Top Change in my quiver; so much magic possible with it!

Av 


Edward Marlo         Wrist Turn Change Plus         deck in left hand and card in right hand, card stroked with left thumb, it changes

- Alternate Version         Inspired by
"Wrist Turn Change" (Ed Marlo, Ibidem)
Also published here
The New Tops, July 1977

1995         M.I.N.T. — Volume II

Also

Though situational, meaning they might not fit all applications, you can check out Expert Card Conjuring by Alton Sharpe for several Marlo ideas on the Top Change. The descriptions are murky and the photos poor, but if you take cards in hand and are persistent you can work it out.

I like the thumb-stroke and wrist turn for some changes. There is a real ROV aspect to the change.

If you have The Complete Works of Derek Dingle, there is a section on the Hofzinser BoTop Change that uses the same idea, similar mechanics.
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TomV

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Reply with quote  #21 
Anything requiring the faro shuffle. I don't know if it's psychological or a lack of dexterity but 've never been able to grasp the fro shuffle and as a result i've missed out on some killer routines.



Ive always been enamoured with Jeff McBrides  card production routines. I bought his videos probably 20 years ago and still can't any of it
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #22 
Thanks, Ray. Outside of the Dingle book I don't have any of those references. I'll keep chugging along, and should the opportunity arise I will look into your suggestions.

Welcome, TomV - Glad to have you here!

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DJ

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Reply with quote  #23 
Anthony, if you are interested you can pick up the M.I.N.T ebooks on L&L for pretty cheap now.
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Anthony Vinson

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ
Anthony, if you are interested you can pick up the M.I.N.T ebooks on L&L for pretty cheap now.


Wow. No kidding. 70% off. Thanks for the heads up!

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomV
Anything requiring the faro shuffle. I don't know if it's psychological or a lack of dexterity but 've never been able to grasp the fro shuffle and as a result i've missed out on some killer routines.



Ive always been enamoured with Jeff McBrides  card production routines. I bought his videos probably 20 years ago and still can't any of it


Welcome, Tom V.

Even if you never do any of the card work on the DVDs there is a lot to be learned that you use in your magic, so never a waste of time.
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TomV

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJ


Welcome, Tom V.

Even if you never do any of the card work on the DVDs there is a lot to be learned that you use in your magic, so never a waste of time.


Thank you Ray. You're right.  Ive been in awe of McBride's work since I saw him in 96. At this stage I'd be over the moon if I could master his jumping card from the issue of Apocalypse [wink]
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Alan Smithee

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Vinson


Hey, I'm a 21st century man, man. Google it! [biggrin]

Av


Google? What's that?

Where I live it's always 1963. Groundhog year.

[confused]  [crazy] [wave]
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Rudy Tinoco

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind Phantom
This is a pretty simple thread & the question I have for you is...What routine or sleight have you been working on for YEARS, but still haven't mastered it or nailed it down?
This is a routine or sleight that you can't do yet, but you've put in the practice time and yet, it illudes you.
I've been practicing Martin Nash's Any Which Way You Want It from one of  Nash's vhs tapes. Some of the highlights of Nash's deal are ( from the spectators  point of view anyway );
Aces are put into the center of the deck-
The deck is shuffled and cut-
You then ask the spectator to choose a suit-
Then you ask the spectator " how many players in the game..between 2 & 8, lets say he says 4 and he choose's a club for the suit-
Then the Magician deals 4 cards, and the forth card is an ace of clubs. The same is done with the other 2 aces, but on the last ace, the spectator is asked to cut the deck, they can cut anywhere, but the magi still deals the cards to find that last ace. Also, Nash's patter makes this routine work. It just sounds good, you know?
I have been more into mentalism as of lately but I still practice this. I have been working on it since 2001 ( somewhere around that time ).
What about you? What have you been practicing for years and yet haven't been able to get it down?
MP


Yay!! MindPhantom is back!!
Welcome home :)

Rudy

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CJmystic

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Reply with quote  #29 
My Pass is not invisible and i've practicing for years but it's okay though, i do get by using it.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #30 
My Pass is not invisible and i've practicing for years but it's okay though, i do get by using it.[/QUOTE

Unsuspected is just as good.
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Alan Smithee

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJmystic
My Pass is not invisible and i've practicing for years but it's okay though, i do get by using it.


A lot of the My-Pass-Is-Invisible experts that I've seen get by, despite their claims that My-Pass-Is-Invisible.

I have my greatest success when nobody's looking.

That said, I do have an undetectable/indetecable/invisible pass which is not for general display. I'll post it on the Session Room soon. Perhaps. If I can remember my password.........
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ianmcrawford

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Reply with quote  #32 
I think my cups and balls will always be a work in progress.

I have been searching for a truly convincing stand up, no table, false shuffle.  Recently was exposed to the Truffle Shuffle by Derek DelGaudio.  Its brilliant, convincing AND a real knuckle buster.  Really, my hands kill me every time I practice.  Still only "hitting" it 20% of the time.

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