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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #1 
I have two that come to mind, the first would the Silk To Egg effect. Why Silk To Egg? Because the crowd thinks their learning a trick, and when you crack open the real egg everyone is in shock. It kills!

The next item would be a jumbo McCombical Deck again the audience thinks they are in on the trick. It has a strong finish.

The Silk to Egg plays up to large audiences too.

What are your favorite sucker effects? Are they dealer items or something you've learned in a book?

Just curious.

Rick,

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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #2 
Torn-and-restored napkin with "sucker" explanation.  You restore the napkin, then purport to show how it was done and you find that the "torn" bundle that you switched is actually restored itself.  Saw it performed when I was quite yound and just came up with my own way of doing it.
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Magic Harry

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Reply with quote  #3 
Like the Mcombicle Deck I like the split deck with a jumbo card prediction. The sucker part comes in when you show that the two half cards that the volunteers each picked don't match, but the Jumbo card matches each half as one card.
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jim ferguson

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Harry
Like the Mcombicle Deck I like the split deck with a jumbo card prediction. The sucker part comes in when you show that the two half cards that the volunteers each picked don't match, but the Jumbo card matches each half as one card.
Magic Harry 



Hi Harry.

I'm not sure that's really a "sucker" type trick - it's probably more the "magician in trouble" type scenario.


Jim


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Magic Harry

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Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks I'll have to start a new topic......"Splitting Hairs"[wink]
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jim ferguson

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Reply with quote  #6 
Well pardon me all over the place.


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Magic Harry

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Reply with quote  #7 
Please don't take offense. I added the wink smiley emoji. I sincerely apologize if you or any one took offense to my remark. 
I just think all Magician in Trouble effects are like Sucker Effects. The audience is led down the garden path and the tables are turned.
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jim ferguson

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Reply with quote  #8 
You're post didn't offend me at all, Harry. The confusion is probably my fault. I thought my response was humourous, but perhaps I should have added a smiley face thing or something. My apologies.


Jim


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Magic Harry

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Reply with quote  #9 
Great so we're all still friends then.
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zarrow52

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Reply with quote  #10 
I'm quite partial to the Dunbury Delusion. Always get a great reaction when their card "isn't where they obviously know it is"!

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #11 
I think that for a trick to be considered a "sucker effect" the spectator has to feel that s/he has been led down the garden path. They have to feel that they've been misled deliberately. When we perpetrate such effects on our audience, we must handle the situation in such a way that the spectator doesn't feel they've been made the fool. 

M
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Mind Phantom

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarrow52
I'm quite partial to the Dunbury Delusion. Always get a great reaction when their card "isn't where they obviously know it is"!

Sean


Oohh..I forgot about that one! I do Finger On The Card which is like the Dunbury Delusion.

I think that would fall under "sucker tricks", or not???

Rick-

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arthur stead

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
I think that for a trick to be considered a "sucker effect" the spectator has to feel that s/he has been led down the garden path. They have to feel that they've been misled deliberately. When we perpetrate such effects on our audience, we must handle the situation in such a way that the spectator doesn't feel they've been made the fool. 

M


I totally agree, Mike.  For my own shows, I always took great care never to let any volunteers feel uncomfortable or humiliated.  And when I performed sucker tricks, I twisted the plot around so that I became the sucker, and the brunt of the joke was on me.


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Intensely Magic

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Reply with quote  #14 
Big fan of Play It Straight Triumph. A real surprise and no one is made to play the part of the foole.
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Paco Nagata

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
I think that for a trick to be considered a "sucker effect" the spectator has to feel that s/he has been led down the garden path. They have to feel that they've been misled deliberately. When we perpetrate such effects on our audience, we must handle the situation in such a way that the spectator doesn't feel they've been made the fool. 

M

I've never quite understood what a "sucker effect" was exactly. Maybe because of the so different meanings or senses that the word "sucker" has. However, thanks to this definition or description I think that finally I've got it.
So, thanks a lot, Mike. You put it into words so beautifully that even me could understand it very well.

So, thinking about it "The Circus Card Trick" comes to my mind directly.
I've performed so many times this "magic-joke" that for me is the insignia trick of this kind.

I'd like to point out that the concept of "Perverse Magic" maybe fits very well in the concept of "sucker effects," as both the spectators and the magician are fooled by the magic! ^_^

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Tom Kracker

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Reply with quote  #16 
This one might not exactly be a "sucker" effect, and I can't recall the exact name of it (I'll try to look it up later).

You start with a rope laid out in a U shape on the table, with the ends toward you.  I do this with 2 or 3 other people and they have ropes to follow what I do.
I grab the left end of the rope and run my right hand under that rope out toward the middle, then the right hand comes back to grab the end on the right side and pull the ends apart.
I end up with a knot, and no matter how many times they see it or try it, they just cannot get a knot.  I show them from multiple angles.  I've even showed with reaching my arms around them, so they see it from my viewpoint, and they still cannot get it.

I also like doing the Torn and Restored Napkin routine that Ray mentioned.

Tom

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #17 
I think the rope thing is similar to a sucker effect. There's no magic. It's a "you can't do what I can do" item. It can have the effect of making people feel stupid which can happen in a sucker effect unless you're careful.

Mike
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
I think the rope thing is similar to a sucker effect. There's no magic. It's a "you can't do what I can do" item. It can have the effect of making people feel stupid which can happen in a sucker effect unless you're careful.

Mike


I agree with Mike about the dangers (in general) of making people feel foolish.  Some people are offended by being fooled in the first place, we don't need to heap it on.

So in the end, it is the presentation that helps soften the blow.  You can do a "sucker effect" and not offend anyone.  

Some performers don't mind making their volunteer appear foolish.  They milk it for laughs, which they surely get.  The audience is thanking their lucky stars that they weren't asked to volunteer!  

That is also why some are reluctant to volunteer in the first place.  Perhaps they attended a show or saw one on TV where the volunteer was made fun of?  They don't want to go down that road.

It is mentioned in this thread about using yourself as the sucker.  That is an easy way out.  For example, you can do '3 Card Monte' and tell a story about how you were suckered by a professional cheat.  Or you can do 'Chop Cup' and make yourself the foil of the "guessing game" of is the ball under the cup, etc.

I always go by the rule that I won't put someone into a situation that I, myself would be uncomfortable in.
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Zero

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Reply with quote  #19 

I very much agree with mike. these things should be handled with tact, care, charm, and a lot of self-awareness.

Look at the definition of "sucker" in the dictionary and you'll quickly see that sucker just means someone who is easily deceived, a sucker effect leverages this as the fulcrum of the plot - so it's easy to see why some might feel a bit annoyed with their gullibility being used to leverage the effect at the expense of what the previous trust they developed in you. Avoiding that takes some care and some craft.



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marv long

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Reply with quote  #20 
I try to avoid effects that would spotlight a spectator as a sucker. In my chop cup routine I tell them not to guess because I cheat. It isn't a fair game and they can't win. In my poker deal - I tell them I'm a very unlucky guy and no matter how hard they try they can't give me a winning hand.

I do find that when the entire audience is the sucker it can work. Silk to egg would be an example. Yes you took them down the garden path but then that's what magicians do. No one person though is the sucker.

Challenge effects can also work. Card  under glass - helicopter card - etc.  One does have to careful that we do not make fun of the person or persons being challenged. When Slydini used to do paper ball over the head he made it clear that if anyone else was sitting up there they would also be fooled. It was the misdirection not the intelligence of the spectator that was at work.

I think it might be fun to explore how we handle spectators so we can ply our craft (fooling people) without making them feel foolish. There has been much written on it but it still has merit for discussion. After all, to best entertain people it helps if they like you.

I agree with RayJ - I won't put someone into a situation that I would be uncomfortable in.
I helped a famous magician once - I won't tell you his name - and he threw many jokes at my personal expense. I didn't like it. I liked it even less because he wasn't fooling me - I knew exactly what he was doing. Ever since then I have tried to be a kinder magician. I find it is pretty easy to get volunteers now.
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RayJ

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Reply with quote  #21 
Here is the gentlemanly way to perform a sucker trick.

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Tom Kracker

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Reply with quote  #22 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Powers
I think the rope thing is similar to a sucker effect. There's no magic. It's a "you can't do what I can do" item. It can have the effect of making people feel stupid which can happen in a sucker effect unless you're careful.

Mike


I completely agree.  I do my best to not make them look or feel stupid.

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Tom Kracker

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Reply with quote  #23 
Another routine that I think follows the Sucker Effect is The Color Monte.  Red and Blue diamonds all over the place, then the ending card...  I present it saying that I was watching someone perform this and I was betting money and kept losing.  Sometimes, I do ask the spectators to guess what the 3rd card is.

tom

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #24 
Hi Tom,

I never thought of Color Monte as a sucker effect. When I've performed it I just get a WTF look of surprise. Just because the ending is unexpected, doesn't make it a sucker effect. Even if you asked the spec what color she thinks the third card is, it's just a shock seeing the $14. I don't think it creates a feeling of foolishness in the spectator. 

Just a thought.

Mike
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Tom Kracker

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Reply with quote  #25 
I see what you're saying Mike.  I guess I was thinking of it as me as the magician telling the story about how I was suckered into betting money, even when it was clear all the cards were red diamonds, then suddenly, they are all blue diamonds.  Then my final guess is maybe red and blue.

Of course, the look of WTF always happens.

Hmm...  now I have to think harder about true sucker effects.  Maybe I just don't know enough of them yet.
I bet there's a lot of material in a bunch of books.

Tom

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Mike Powers

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Reply with quote  #26 
Hippity Hop rabbits is a classic sucker trick. The audience, generally children, see that you're just turning the apparatus around which explains why the rabbits seem to have changed places. They're sure that the black rabbit has a white rabbit on the other side and the white rabbit has the black rabbit on the other side. This totally explains the "magic" you seem to be doing. The kids will start screaming for you to turn the rabbits around. They're trying to bust you. You do a bunch of shtick pretending to do what they want. Then you finally "see the light" and turn the rabbits around. The white one has a red one on the back while the black on has a yellow one on the back. This is totally unexpected. 

The kids realize that you knew this all along and just led them down the "garden path." They were made into "suckers."

This or other sucker effects (Die Box) are often used in children's shows to burn them early in the game and get them to stop trying to bust you. They don't want to get burned twice.

M
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Paco Nagata

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Reply with quote  #27 
Have you guys heard about "Pim, Pam, Pum" by Juan Tamariz?
It was published in "Aprenda Ud. Magia" p.93.
https://www.conjuringarchive.com/list/book/1353

It's a very funny "sucker card trick."

The magician cuts the deck and shows the bottom card of the cut pile to a spectator.
Right after, the magician turns the cut pile to see that card and place the pile again on the other pile.

Then, the magician says:
"Let's divine your card... Your card was (for example) the As of Heart, right?"

Obviously the spectator protests:
"Of course! You turned the pile to see the card!"

So then the magician says:
"Do you think it is easy?"

The spectator says:
"Of course it is!"

The magician says:
"Ok, try it yourself."

So, the magician hands the deck to the spectator.

When the spectator turns the pile to see the identity of the card, he/she can't see any card as only can see the back of a card!

The method is very simple:

Before the magician hands the deck to the spectator he/she reverses the deck face up with a face down card on top...

The gag is called "Pim, Pam, Pum" because when you show the card you say "Pim," when you look at the card you say "Pam," and when you put the card on top of the other pile you say "Pum."

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